General Discussion

General DiscussionPos 4 more contested than midlane

Pos 4 more contested than midlane in General Discussion
kowareta

    16 min queue still not found a game, wtff?
    pos 5 -> insta find the game
    can pro players picking pudge, mirana pos 5 , so i find a goddamn game?

    KUKULAMIN KA BUT THE K IS...

      Haha just que pos 5 then first pick your pos 4 🙈

      kowareta

        and get reported and have more queue time next games
        nice bait brother
        20 min queue for 26 min game
        legit

        edit, but got like 28 mmr so worth the time :D

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        Oldman

          Casual 9 wins in a row lol

          Glimmer of Dawn

            Chen OP cancer

            Why Lex why

            Report stop posting on shit forum :P

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            kowareta

              ^ i bet wr picker cant even micro courier xD
              some heroes are powered because enemy have braindamage
              some cause player have skill
              guess the heroes :)

              Glimmer of Dawn

                Nice winstreak though kowareta gratz :)

                kowareta

                  no , im just winning cause low behavior score players giving up ezly, and with chen u can get the objectives and punish this behavior effectively.
                  carry leave lane to jungle?nice towers u got there, smiley face

                  MuLLi

                    Yes last night I wanted to play pos 4 but was forced to mid! Luckily I had picked already Treant so mid was easy vs Morphling

                    Glimmer of Dawn

                      So chen eats brain damaged people?

                      Well Lex apparently you predate on brain damage xD

                      kowareta

                        i dont know
                        what do u think? thats all matters :)

                        Murranji

                          Just queue pos 4 and pos 5 and take luck of the draw. That's what I do.

                          kowareta

                            i dont want to play pos 5 chen buddy

                            Glimmer of Dawn

                              I think what you think matters too man. Believe it or not, I think I'm one of the few people on the forum who actually likes you.

                              Subaru

                                quit dota, have a life, this game is not worth your time.

                                flourishing new leaf

                                  i get 45 min queue as pos 4

                                  Oldman

                                    Glimmer lol ^^

                                    But its kinda true. The higher I grind, people tend to buy 9 tangos and a salve and midlaner plays super safe. :(

                                    Atha

                                      because the new rank system, there is no longer '2 supports'.
                                      They are now divided into 2 clear distinction Hard Support and Soft Carry / Soft "support"

                                      Gone are the days people can say "hey help me warding you retard ES" coz they will just say "I'm pos 4 retard, do you know what pos 4 do? go buy all those wards coz I'm going for items, I queue for pos 4 for a reason. Oh yeah, you better not let any obs get stacked on the shop, or I will report you for not doing pos 5 properly"

                                      Atha

                                        I forget what game is it on TI9, it has Mirana and ogre as the supports. But later mirana goes agha to farm dangerous lane, which made ogre so poor as having 2k networth by 30 minutes.

                                        This is why many people want Pos 4 but don't want post 5. Many people don't find it fun, walking around with just boots and magic wand and stacks of wards and dust just to get aimed first because pos 5 is easier to die. Also even if you has enough money, people expect you to buy Glimmer and forcestaff, not atos or eul which also reduces killing potential.

                                        Tell me, who would enjoy playing as walking wards without ability to kill and get targeted all the time in a PUBLIC match with strangers. Well there is some people who enjoyed by just winning a match, but it is definitely not me

                                        LucaManny

                                          Idk i honestly think chen is pos 5 material judging by how it played at tournament, well i dont play him myself so

                                          Atha

                                            This distinction between pos 4 and pos5 really makes it harder for pos5 and make it easier for pos 4 since many people think pos 4 = no need wards, they just need to buy dust and don't farm too much

                                            LucaManny

                                              Gone are the days people can say "hey help me warding you retard ES" coz they will just say "I'm pos 4 retard, do you know what pos 4 do? go buy all those wards coz I'm going for items, I queue for pos 4 for a reason. Oh yeah, you better not let any obs get stacked on the shop, or I will report you for not doing pos 5 properly"

                                              Well, i was do it all the time lol. Anyone who dont do pos 5 properly is pissing me off.

                                              Tell me, who would enjoy playing as walking wards without ability to kill and get targeted all the time in a PUBLIC match with strangers. Well there is some people who enjoyed by just winning a match, but it is definitely not me

                                              Its me, i enjoying the ward game vs enemy support lol. Its strange that u actually played pos 5 heroes but hate it. Do u the "hey help me ward" type of person? For me, its quite exciting when u just making an impact by spending ur money on ward and just trying not to die. Its quite pleasure (or frustating) to successfully (or fail) dewarding enemy ward lol

                                              The only thing i demand from my pos 4 is buying dust and sometimes help sentry when i 200 gold away for an item

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                                              Metsis

                                                In the shit tier category, I had support, offlane and safelane marked and queued for games. 100% of them were Support games (I didn't have slot 5 picked)... Not a single core game came out of those. And I am playing during Europe evening times when there should be quite many players to choose from.

                                                It just sucks that after an 80 minute game, the safelane core isn't even six slotted and the highest networth heroes were the two supports. It would help if the core queue players really knew how to play their parts as well. I can only take the horse to the well, I cannot make him drink the water... But this is shit tier, I probably suck monkey balls as well...

                                                Glimmer of Dawn

                                                  Who was it that said, as a carry you are only as good as your supports?

                                                  I believe it was either Purge or Blitz.

                                                  Regardless, of course it would be nice if cores always got amazing farm every game.

                                                  But considering the mmr you have, my advice to you would be to always focus on what you can do better.

                                                  Because you have a lifetime average of 10.59 deaths per game. But you know you can improve.

                                                  Positive mental attitude goes a long way :)

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                                                  .vince

                                                    I dont think there is huge difference between pos 4 and pos 5 (atleast in my bracket(ancient)). We go ward together die together buy sen together suffer together.

                                                    The only thing pos 4 can do but pos 5 cant
                                                    You can pig enigma jungle or mirana semi carry as pos 4 (you will get report if u go pos 5)

                                                    Glimmer of Dawn

                                                      Hm, I think this meta actually lends heavily to a pos 4 and a hard 6 so I’d say there should be a large difference between 4 and 5.

                                                      kowareta

                                                        i think u all mongolooids
                                                        end of story
                                                        specially mirana pos 4 above glimmer

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                                                        Metsis

                                                          80 minute game is still 80 minute game. If you know even something about farming, you should have atleast 6 slotted your carry hero. And it wasn't like we were base locked for 40 minutes or something crazy like that. You just have to hit creeps and neutrals on your way to something and you will have enough cash to 6 slot your hero in a game this long. Basically you are avoiding farming to not be six slotted at 80 minutes. Which means, you shouldn't really be playing a carry role, at least not safelane. If you want to play more aggressive style, select the offlane role, the heroes usually played there are much stronger in the early game and you can play more aggressive. It doesn't always work or go the way you planned it, but that is why we play the games.

                                                          And don't come at me with your immortal ranks and tell me how things work in the shit tier... Things are vastly different here. You might see the Io safelane carry without the player ever being aware that there is such a thing as TI or rather that it is currently ongoing and this was a weird albeit functional pick there.

                                                          Basically at the higher tiers, you can rely that the people know the base mechanics of the game, and have some type of understanding how the game works, but where I dwell, that is not a given. Some games, you see wonderful people who know the game well and there is plenty of communication and it is quick path to a 25 minute victory. Other times, you get people flaming from minute one, just because, and some really wonky Spec-offlane picks etc. Just because some picking app said it is good against all of the enemy team heroes etc. These picking apps need to be updated to set your role first and then add your picks and enemy team picks and then suggest good heroes for your position to be functional now. You can't just pick based on apps before there was any type of role lock in the game.

                                                          And yes, I do realize that my death average is way too high. I like to play the suicide bomber heroes quite a lot, heroes like Huskar and Venomancer etc. That rack up deaths more than the average Bristle or AM. It is an issue, it just suits my preferred style of play better. And I like to play different heroes a lot too. Wins would become more available if I were to spam the hero of the patch (like WR) and it would certainly cut into the rate of deaths as well.

                                                          Glimmer of Dawn

                                                            Ok. I wasn’t acting patronising to you. I’m just saying maybe don’t blame people when you have a death average of higher than 10 with over 4000 games.

                                                            You have a sub 50% winrate with huskar, your most played hero. You have almost as many games as me.

                                                            Maybe it’s time to work on yourself if you actually wanna climb. If you don’t care about climbing then whatever. But critiquing others’ play is always easier than looking at your own.

                                                            kowareta

                                                              Wins would become more available if I were to spam the hero of the patch (like WR) and it would certainly cut into the rate of deaths as well.

                                                              :axe_laugh: :axe_laugh:
                                                              true
                                                              what is the least meta hero in ur eyes? i can boost ur mmr to mine with that hero

                                                              Metsis

                                                                You telling me, that you don't expect your safelane carry to be six slotted at 60 minutes? And just to tell you, my behavior score 10k, I don't speak or blame others for the wins or losses. It is just that if your core players don't know how to hit creeps, there is only so much you can do as a support... This game was just an example. He did ok in the team fights, the safelane core NS. He was ok, but he needed to hit a few more creeps to get his items. He probably wouldn't have died 20 times in the game and we probably would have won the game. It was pretty close now and I just call it as I see it, he had least networth on the team with the highest farm priority. Something has gone wrong there... I wasn't playing in his lane, so I don't know how it all went down, but something didn't work...

                                                                I don't flame others in game, I look at the numbers after the game... And then do my assessments. And I do realize that sometimes I am at fault too. It is easier to blame others, as usual, but I don't usually flame and blame unless people start pointing at me, especially for no apparent reason... And I don't usually reply if my game is not going all too well. For example when you play a hard carry and you are going against a really aggressive offlane and your support just does next to nothing... Like wanders off to another lane without even saying he is leaving.

                                                                And Huskar just hasn't been a good hero for a long time. He is one of those nasty last pick heroes, but other than that he isn't all that powerful. Sure if you get good support and a good draft, he can be godly, but that just doesn't happen in shit tier... You may get one, but almost never both. And he is basically the one hero that I have really "spammed". Just picked into anything and everything. But I know when he works and when he doesn't... And I can certainly play him on another level than almost any other hero in the game. He is certainly my comfort pick... He just isn't very good in the meta... In the last 3 months, I have 14 games on Huskar and have won 57% of them...

                                                                Glimmer of Dawn

                                                                  “You don’t speak”-

                                                                  Communicating helps winning

                                                                  “You don’t flame”-

                                                                  I never claimed you did. I didn’t sense anything wrong on a tilt front.

                                                                  “Huskar hasn’t been good for a while”-
                                                                  That’s fine. If you play for fun, that’s fine. But if you are serious about climbing, don’t spam a hero you’re sub-50% on.

                                                                  “Six slotted carry”- well of course I expect him to be 6 slotted. I specifically said it’d be nice is cores are always farmed.

                                                                  But the difference between me and you is that I am completely focussed on winrate, whereas you are focussed on individual games.

                                                                  I learned from being a top gwent player that climbing ladders was about winning more than losing. If I win 4 lose 3 in a day, i’m up 20 mmr. If I go 4-3 every day for a week, i’m up 140 mmr. On a ladder where the top mmr was sub 4k, playing with this mentality got me to rank 15 in the world.

                                                                  Now that’s a bygone era. But I learned to focus on winrate and ignore anomalous “bad” games. Shitty teammates? Can’t change them. Flaming retards? I mute them. The only thing I can change is myself and I hone in on that. I am positive and communicative and try to be the best I can all the time.

                                                                  And that’s why I go on and on about looking at yourself, being honest to yourself and looking at replays. I never hit search if I’m tilted, because if even 10% of your games you lose because you tilt, that’s the difference between 55% winrate and 45%. The first is climbing forever, the second is dropping mmr fast.

                                                                  kowareta

                                                                    I never hit search if I’m tilted, because if even 10% of your games you lose because you tilt, that’s the difference between 55% winrate and 45%. The first is climbing forever, the second is dropping mmr fast.

                                                                    @glimmer
                                                                    may i ask u, what u teaching?
                                                                    holy crap my eyes. the logic and math in this sentence is beyond retarded
                                                                    with all respect

                                                                    probability and math is not simple addition or subtraction :/

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                                                                    kowareta

                                                                      so for ppl taking this glimmer seriously i just prove how wrong he is :)))
                                                                      consider 100 matches, he claimes u losing 10% because u tilt, so u have 90 matches left, in this 90 tilt free games he assumes u have 55% winrate, so roughly u can say u win 50 of them and losing 40, so in 100 matches u won 50 and u lost 50 -> 50% winrate

                                                                      so 10% tilt, in 55% "winrate tilt free" make u 50% winrate with tilt -> simple math
                                                                      not 45%

                                                                      teacher btw

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                                                                      Glimmer of Dawn

                                                                        @Kowareta:
                                                                        “so for ppl taking this glimmer seriously i just prove how wrong he is :)))
                                                                        consider 100 matches, he claimes u losing 10% because u tilt, so u have 90 matches left, in this 90 tilt free games he assumes u have 55% winrate, so roughly u can say u win 50 of them and losing 40, so in 100 matches u won 50 and u lost 50 -> 50% winrate
                                                                        so 10% tilt, in 55% "winrate tilt free" make u 50% winrate with tilt -> simple math
                                                                        not 45%
                                                                        teacher btw”

                                                                        So if I don’t tilt and I win 55% of games out of 100, that’s 55 wins.

                                                                        I now tilt and lose 10% of games instead. 10% of 100 is 10 extra losses. So I go down to 55-10= 45 wins. 45 out of 100 is 45% winrate.

                                                                        You don’t set aside 10% of games at the start of the calculation, that makes no sense.

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                                                                        Glimmer of Dawn

                                                                          You know for someone who is so obsessed with being right I didn’t imagine that subtracting 10 would be your downfall.

                                                                          Shame. I actually kinda liked you.

                                                                          Maths teacher btw. With a maths and philosophy degree. Who’s right, I wonder.

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                                                                          MuLLi

                                                                            Flaming usually lose games! Sometimes just negative attitude is enough bec it might spread to others and "Boom" u know what is cooking

                                                                            LOSE!

                                                                            kowareta

                                                                              yeah it makes no sense. but if u remember ur math grades it make sense why not it makes sense
                                                                              it is what it is :)

                                                                              you are mixing different stories to reach ur desired output.

                                                                              I now tilt and lose 10% of games instead. 10% of 100 is 10 extra losses. So I go down to 55-10= 45 wins. 45 out of 100 is 45% winrate.

                                                                              yikes.
                                                                              in the story u telling, u will lose 10% of the 55 games u won already without tilt!! thats make 5.5 lose and the 50% that i already said!

                                                                              kowareta

                                                                                dude, look its simple
                                                                                u have 55% winrate in tilt free games cause of sth we name it "skill"
                                                                                so if u tilt no matter u are skilled or not, u will lose 10%. right? thats what u saying, thats ur hypothesis
                                                                                so if u play 100 games, u will lose 10 cause u tilt, no matter what.
                                                                                in the remain games ur skill deciding u win or u lose, so 55% out of 90 , 49.5 games u will win and therefore u have 49,5% winrate

                                                                                i dont know which part is not obvious

                                                                                '96 Neve Campbell

                                                                                  The pseudo-intellectualism of this thread is astonishing.
                                                                                  45% winrate out of 100 games is 45 won games.
                                                                                  55% winrate out of 100 games is 55 won games.
                                                                                  If someone capable of a 55% winrate loses 10 extra games out of 100 because they are tilted then funny enough they would have a 45% winrate and only win 45/100 games instead of 55/100 games. Do they not teach primary school level maths in Iran? Surely the Uranium enrichment program requires basic mathematics?

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                                                                                  MuLLi

                                                                                    Guys maybe 55% player wins 55% with tilt and without it would win more!

                                                                                    Glimmer of Dawn

                                                                                      Hmmmm let’s see what the internet says. I guess we’ll see who’s right. *shrugs*

                                                                                      kowareta
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                                                                                        kowareta
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                                                                                          MuLLi

                                                                                            U guys make this too hard! Think about party gallup poll if someone win 55% in tilt in "gallup poll" after losing 10% he had 65% win rate before tilt.

                                                                                            kowareta

                                                                                              u guys dont understand
                                                                                              he loses 10 games for sure cause tilt
                                                                                              but his winrate is 55% not 55 game
                                                                                              he wins 55% of 90 it means 49 games
                                                                                              holy crap

                                                                                              MuLLi

                                                                                                Think about it again! If I come to u and I say I lost 10 games last 100 because tilt. Then I point them out to u I'm sure some games would not be won even I'm not in tilt. Right?

                                                                                                So I bit like agree about deduction before calculation

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                                                                                                MuLLi

                                                                                                  Anyway normal people think 10% means u had 65% and now only 55% win rate

                                                                                                  Like in those polls

                                                                                                  '96 Neve Campbell

                                                                                                    u guys dont understand
                                                                                                    he loses 10 games for sure cause tilt
                                                                                                    but his winrate is 55% not 55 game
                                                                                                    he wins 55% of 90 it means 49 games
                                                                                                    holy crap

                                                                                                    Thats not what anyone is saying. Are you deliberately misunderstanding what was said or are you actually stupid. The games lost to tilt are the ones we are taking off of the winrate. Why would you deduct them from the equation?

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                                                                                                    kowareta

                                                                                                      look we making things personal
                                                                                                      just talk about maths
                                                                                                      im deleting every unrelated comment

                                                                                                      what is winrate? chance of winning a game!
                                                                                                      consider u playing one game
                                                                                                      how likely u tilt? 10%, right? so in 10% of times u 100% lose cause u tilt!
                                                                                                      when u win? when u dont tilt and u win the game by ur skill chance.
                                                                                                      so if u passed the probability in school u can calculate it ur self!
                                                                                                      u must first dont tilt, 90% of chance and then win it with 55% skill
                                                                                                      0.9 * .55 => 49.5%

                                                                                                      so a person who have 55% chance of winning by his skill without any tilt, and a 10% chance of tilting and losing the game because of that, we see he has overall 49.5% chance of winning games with tilt.

                                                                                                      anything is wrong about this ? ladz?

                                                                                                      MuLLi

                                                                                                        Kowareta is right about his math but u all guys missing the point