ac over shiva on dp is stupid, being closer to your target already mean dealing more damage for dp. and it's also significantly stronger in term of protection, as you have that -as aura.
On invoker it's indeed situational.
^ DP will already have some dope move speed. You will have either BoT or at least Phase Boots by the time you are ready for AC as well as a Eul's if you aren't an idiot.
Shiva's means you have the -as aura, but your constant -5 armor with AC aura is too much to pass by. Not only does your ult do more damage, but you help your team out even more in fights. I'd suggest an AC AFTER an O-Core and Eul's and perhaps a BKB / Ghost Sceptre. Your survivability shouldn't be an issue.
in what way is -5 armour "too much to pass [up]"? it's helpful for her ultimate but it's not core or else we'd be seeing AC on DP every game that went late instead of the usual items like bkb shivas and octarine.
items that dp commonly builds are mostly defensive not offensive. octarine, bkb, euls, shivas, heart, pipe sometimes for example. and it's not like shivas is useless while -5 armour of AC is a godsend. -40 attack speed is probably comparable to the +5 armour that you give to your team, and slowing the enemy so that your team have higher attack uptime and you can get closer so that ghosts do more damage as matrice said will do comparable damage to reducing armour by 5.
I mean, defensively, DP is already loaded. With Eul's and her Spirit Siphon, she can survive quite a while in team fights. Also, usually someone else would get the Pipe.
Its not like Shiva's is terrible, I just prefer AC to that. Heck, Blaidmail is probably a good pickup on DP too, I just don't use it.
Late game, I'd see O-Core, Shiva's, AC, BoT + whatever 5th / 6th item you want. I get them both, just AC first.
Also, DP is a situational pick and requires teammates who can force the team fight to happen. Slow's and disables are already there. -Armor is harder to come by on a hero.
if euls and spirit siphon was enough, then DPs would be getting offensive items in the majority of games, but they don't, because the enemies are also going to have item progression which means DP needs to keep getting defensive items to ensure that she doesn't get bursted down.
just because she already has a slow and a disable with euls / silence, doesn't mean you can't get more and also benefit from having more. you don't see svens not building damage just because they already have innate damage from cleave and gods strength or tinkers not getting dagon/aghs/whatever because they already have damage from laser and rockets.
-armour isn't found on many items but that doesn't make it a necessity, or else AC wouldn't be a super situational item that is almost never gotten. it's like the last option when your teammates already have X item or when Y item isn't good because of the enemy team comp or the enemy team's items. DP does a ton of physical damage with her ultimate but it's not her only source of damage, so the effectiveness of AC isn't as high as getting AC on someone who only does damage through right clicks.
-armour is one of the few ways to increase exorcism's damage but it's not the only way to increase DP's overall damage. like in a teamfight, if you have AC you'll obviously deal more damage with exorcism, but that doesn't mean you couldn't get a comparable damage increase (and survivability) from another item that is also more useful outside of your ultimate e.g. shivas, veil, octarine.
I think that getting shivas over AC every time is the higher percentage play compared to getting AC over shivas every time. there are more situations where shivas comes in useful where AC does not, compared to the reverse scenario.
- I feel as though you are arguing for the sake of arguing. Not knocking you, just wish that you would actually read what I write instead of typing some massive response not entirely relevant.
- Your points revolve around the fact that your opponents are progressing and you are playing 1v5. Sure you need defensive items. I NEVER said NOT to get an O-Core. I also suggest a BKB / Ghost Scepter depending on what type of damage you are getting burst down by. Your team will also be getting items, both offensive and defensive. In my experience, I have done best playing a more aggressive playstyle and offensive builds. Its not like you have to build your own Mek and Pipe. Dota is 5v5. Not 1v5.
- Your second point is terrible. I have no idea how that relates to our discussion. The majority of DP's damage done in teamfights will be done physically. That is why I like AC so much. Same reason you tend to get a Veil on Zeus. I don't know why this is so hard for you to understand. You contradicted yourself BTW.
- Armor not being common. The only reason I brought this up is because you were talking about how Shiva's is so nice because of its movement slow. Probably 90% of the DotA heroes have a slow or disable. I think of 3 with reliable armour removal. That is why I pointed out the effectiveness of AC as compared to a SG.
-Your 4th point is irrelevant. Building a veil on DP would be a waste of her gold. Its better that someone else builds it on your team if your team really has enough magic damage for it to be effective. And as I said before, I do build Shiva's and O-Core. O-Core BEFORE the AC.
Most of my games with DP are without AC because by the time I figured out that it increased her ult damage, I got bored of her.
http://www.dotafire.com/dota-2/guide/dp-mid-the-ez-pz-mmr-booster-24189
http://www.dotabuff.com/players/73811849/matches?hero=death-prophet
Then again I am one of the only one's I've ever seen who DOESN'T get a Bottle. So I don't feel bad if you disagree. :D
ac s been viable for dp since ac exists, classic build is heart into ac, long before ppl started buying euls, bloodstones and stuff, but idk if its worth buying it as a second item right now, especially since octarine and euls are core on her.
idk for invo, mb both are not good but shivas a bit better
@snu
idk im more inclined to believe the 6k players (and EE) building veil over you. you cannot tell the enemy team to not fight because your exorcism is still cooling down. spirit siphon is now magical damage and crypt swarm is a spammable nuke. DPs are even building treads for extra survivability, veil giving armour and stats is also another reason to buy it. veil and shivas are also useful because they increase your effectiveness outside of your ultimate. I think AC on DP is like aghs on zeus. other items have higher priority over it because it only increases your ultimate damage which has a long cooldown when there are alternative damage sources that also increase your damage output when your ultimate is down (as well as providing other bonuses)
cast range is uncommon, only 1 item grants it. you still don't see juggernauts building it for omnislash, lifestealers for infest or legion commanders for duel. you don't need armour reduction on exorcism just like how you don't need cast range on those abilities.
"its better that someone else builds it on your team if your team really has enough magic damage for it to be effective"
except that veil also gives stats that are relevant in the early game and mids get veil early enough for it to have a significant impact. offlaners may not get it in time and there's often better items to get, carries scale off right click 99% of the time, and supports don't get it quick enough. see puck and zeus for example.
I have actually been playing DP a lot lately, I learned that it's her goal to pretty much stay alive every fight, lots of the time when she dies, you all die, or lose the fight, so it's pretty imperative that you don't get nuked the fuck down in fights before they start.
You need items that keep you alive.
Items that build HP:
Heart (I was thinking one day, this might actually be the item to build against AM, the same way you might make AC against him over shivas cause it doesn't increase your mana pool with that mystic staff ingredient, so he has less potential mana void damage) Bu at the same time you might still be building Octarine core on her cause it's almost too good to pass up, not sure, but the AC point makes sense.
Bloodstone (Soul Ring works well on her early game, and is cheap in price, and the other benefits you get from it) <-- I personally don't like this on her.
Octarine Core (spell life steal and HP)
Items that buy time:
Ghost Scepter
Euls Scepter (absolutely fucking core on her, the mana regen, the easy build up, and the move speed so you move like a race car are just too good on her)
Then armor items so you don't get right clicked to death:
AC
Shivas
Those are the only items I think of when playing her, sometimes I get sythe of Vyse when we are winning just cause I like how she says Sythe of Vyse. XD
@yorkey
"I like how she says Sythe of Vyse"
https://hydra-media.cursecdn.com/dota2.gamepedia.com/b/b4/Dpro_wailing_03.mp3
KappaPride
Disturbing..... >.>
https://hydra-media.cursecdn.com/dota2.gamepedia.com/1/1f/Wind_item_07.mp3
Wind Ranger sounds like she now has just what she needs to save her village!
Same with Mjollnir:
https://hydra-media.cursecdn.com/dota2.gamepedia.com/c/c0/Wind_item_13.mp3
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I find ac a better armor item for dp and invoker in most scenario, the minus armor from ac is God like with dp's phsical damage ult. Attack speed from ac goes well with cold snap, ac also provides excellent aura for forge spirit, also the 5 minus armor form ac plus the maximum 10 minus armor form forge spirit adds to up 15 minus armor in total, that's more than sf with deso. I wonder why ac is not so popular on invoker and dp in pub, I only see Sumail build ac on dp once, and Miracle build ac on invoker once.
Ppl go shvia's most of the time in pubs, which does give more protection than ac, thanks to the attack speed slow, but ac brings much more synergy and utility to the table imo.