Redacting all these comments.
We've talked all this business out with Seventhings and there were a lot of miscommunications and misunderstandings. Sorry for the fuss!
http://steamcommunity.com/profiles/76561198060935811/screenshots/
heres the most important part... never call a child a noob or he will take it up the ass...
Different view of chat : http://steamcommunity.com/profiles/76561198060935811/screenshots/
I didnt get the chance to get a screenshot of the chat before. but all I said was why would you make rules if noobs wont even follow them... and why are you acting like a noob admin.
He got so mad he banned me and disqualified our team for no real reason IN HIS RULES.
Screenshots were taken and available. Of the pre-remake smoke at 22:03 and the post-game non-smoke at 22:00. Replay verifies that the smoke was popped prior to 22:00.
The admin ignored these details.
dang almost as bad as back in dota 1 days with dxd NA dota league where Super mods ban people when they lose and ban hammer teammates if losing. Then take it back if ever questioned.
The accusation that "we were only trying to get a free win" was uncalled for and really disrespectful as well. We treated both the admin and the other team with respect.
We expressed a concern, wanted to have an admin make the judgment call on the re-make, and the other team attempted to disqualify us for "taking too long" and "wasting their time" while we got an admin to cooperate. They were trying to rulebook us. We were making our own defense with: "Here's why we didn't agree to a remake, and here's why we wanted to talk to an admin."
However, the other team entirely disconnected without communicating with us first, and we were forced into a disadvantage.
What we would have liked is to resume the game from where it was left off. Unfortunately, "remaking the game" involves making the new game and then calling in the save states to recall player heroes, items, and positions. Not buffs and debuffs. If you have a BKB active during a reload, you will reload without your BKB. Same with smoke of deceit, in this case.
people who dc should take a lost. Why no pause? Since this is tournament people could wait 10-20 mintues? Also why they violate the rules? Both team MUST agree to remake or the DC'ed team should lose.
Sounds like a pretty awful league. League of Dota has been received quite well on reddit so far and it would be a shame if they received sponsors while being this shady. http://www.reddit.com/r/DotA2/comments/1ue3d7/a_plea_for_help/
I recommend you contact one of the head admins there because that SevenThings guy does not seem like a person you can reason with.
He changed the rules? cuz now it says admin can force a remake.
Remakes
Teams are allowed to remake their game if both parties agree.
You are not required to remake at any point, even if the team has a disconnect, unless otherwise instructed by an admin.
Lol I remember this also happening to us. We joined an amateur tournament on Dota 1 and on our second game. we played against a team who's well known by the admins. On the 26 minute mark 2 of them INTENTIONALLY dced saying there were technical problems. We were so ahead by that time.
We just remade the game since there were no saves. The crowd was clearly mad at both the admins and the other team.
well post it on reddit too and add the link of the tournament page too... well since i know they're this shitty im not buying the ticket anymore...
Hey all - I run League of Dota.
First off, the opening posts come off extremely bias, and the info there is not in context.
OP's team contacted me and said that the other team had disconnected, and we're unable to reconnect, so they requested that the game be remade from a save (the game was paused at 22:03, and the save would be from 22:00). I thought that this would be fair, and the rules could be ignored, as to disqualify a team that was clearly winning (up a bunch of towers and six kills) for something that was out of their control (steam servers crashing) seemed very unfair. So I ruled in the opposing teams favor, and required that OP's team play from the save (which again, was three seconds from the place where the other team DCD and a pause was initiated).
What I find irritating about this post was that I was NEVER informed about this "smoke" issue. Karcher and I had talked for at least three minutes about the situation, and he never once brought up the smoke until AFTER his team lost, after I declared that the game would be loaded from the save.
I care about teams that cheat, and I care about people upholding a certain level of professionalism during these events, which is why this is literally the first complaint we've ever had about our tournaments (and we've had over 3,500 people participate in a two month time span).
Edit:
Also, I have no idea who the other team is or the players on it. There was no favoritism going on here. I didn't say fuck you to you, nor did I insult your team in any way. I told you what was happening with the information that was provided to me.
Additionally, regarding the other team insulting OPs team: If I had been informed of this (reading it in this thread is the first time I've heard about it) they would have been disqualified immediately, and OP's team would have advanced, because we do NOT allow that kind of behavior in our events. Over the past two months we've disqualified five teams for foul language/attitudes, and in severe cases have banned teams from participating in upcoming events entirely.
20:33 papasrdl: why does it take so long
20:33 papasrdl: to join game
20:33 papasrdl: god
20:33 OA*_Havoc Badger: oi
20:33 OA*_Havoc Badger: show some respect
20:33 OA*_Havoc Badger: sorry
20:33 papasrdl: what respect u are wasting our time
20:33 OA*_Havoc Badger: but rules are rules
20:33 papasrdl: no
20:33 OA*_Havoc Badger: you are wasting ours
20:33 papasrdl: i was the asshole who rehosted
20:33 OA*_Havoc Badger: you dc'd from the game
20:34 papasrdl: i didnt
20:34 papasrdl: i left it
20:34 OA*_Havoc Badger: yeah
20:34 papasrdl: to rehost
20:34 OA*_Havoc Badger: for no reason
20:34 OA*_moon: To remake the game, you're supposed to have it mediated by an admin
20:34 Siwers: join fast game
20:34 Neme: 3 minutes left
20:34 Neme: and we take def win
20:34 papasrdl: ye
20:34 Siwers: we dont have time
20:34 OA*_Havoc Badger: you can't do this without an admin
20:34 OA*_Havoc Badger: well
20:34 papasrdl: game was at 22;03
20:34 papasrdl: save is from 22;00
20:34 OA*_Havoc Badger: then don't join the tourny
20:34 papasrdl: u need admin
20:34 papasrdl: to tell you to join
20:34 papasrdl: ?
20:34 OA*_Havoc Badger: you need an admin to tell you to remake
20:34 Siwers: can you join fucking game ?
20:34 Neme: even with admin i can't reconnect
20:34 OA*_moon: It's not the time difference that's the issue.
20:34 OA*_Havoc Badger: you can't just remake a game
20:34 papasrdl: k i got 2 mins left
20:34 Neme: guys
20:34 papasrdl: to get admin
20:34 Neme: 2 minutes
20:34 papasrdl: or join game
20:35 papasrdl: else u lose by default, sry i am asshole
20:35 OA*_Havoc Badger: hahahaha
20:35 OA*_Havoc Badger: hahaha
20:35 sasu: just join the game
20:35 sasu: and finish this match
20:35 Neme: 1 minute
20:35 sasu: :O
20:35 OA*_Havoc Badger: ok sorry
20:35 OA*_Havoc Badger: gonna have to report you
20:35 OA*_Havoc Badger: you're being rude
20:35 OA*_Havoc Badger: and not playing by the rules
20:35 OA*_Havoc Badger: you can't dc in a game
20:35 Neme: watch urself at first
20:35 papasrdl: guess u didnt expirence the life yet
20:35 OA*_Havoc Badger: ok
20:35 OA*_Havoc Badger: thats fine
20:36 Neme: ahahahaha i cant dc
20:36 OA*_Havoc Badger: but you're also gonna get banned
20:36 Neme: show me rule
20:36 Neme: that i cant dc
20:36 OA*_Havoc Badger: read the page
20:36 OA*_Havoc Badger: before you join a tournament
20:36 OA*_Havoc Badger: did you not read
20:36 Neme: shure
20:36 Neme: i give screenshot that i couldnt reconnect
20:36 Neme: ur argument is invalid
20:36 OA*_Havoc Badger: thats fine
20:36 Neme: so join game
20:36 papasrdl: why the fuck u cant join gam
20:36 OA*_Havoc Badger: i understand
20:36 Neme: or we take def win
20:36 Neme: its ur last minute
20:36 OA*_Havoc Badger: but you can't do that
20:36 papasrdl: we would ahve finished by now
20:36 Neme: i will take seocnd screenshot now
20:36 OA*_Havoc Badger: the rules state that you can't just remake
20:36 Neme: and report result
20:36 OA*_Havoc Badger: and demand we join it
20:36 sasu: can u join ?
20:36 OA* Papakarcher: rules state you cant remake without
20:37 sasu: where is ur team ?
20:37 OA*_Havoc Badger: we are talking to the admin
20:37 OA*_moon: "Teams are allowed to remake their game if both parties agree.You are not required to remake at any point, even if the team has a disconnect, unless otherwise instructed by an admin."
20:37 OA*_Havoc Badger: he is gonna disqualify i think
20:37 sasu: CAN U JUST SHUT THE FUCK UP ALREADY AND JOIN THE GAME ?
20:37 OA*_moon: We did not agree without admin interference
20:37 OA* Papakarcher: RemakesTeams are allowed to remake their game if both parties agree.You are not required to remake at any point, even if the team has a disconnect, unless otherwise instructed by an admin.Omid Moayyeri
20:37 papasrdl: we didnt ahve a disconnect
20:37 sasu: CAN U JUST SHUT THE FUCK UP ALREADY AND JOIN THE GAME ?
20:37 papasrdl: we had 2 disconnects
20:37 sasu: CAN U JUST SHUT THE FUCK UP ALREADY AND JOIN THE GAME ?
20:37 sasu: CAN U JUST SHUT THE FUCK UP ALREADY AND JOIN THE GAME ?
20:37 papasrdl: so learn to read
20:37 papasrdl: and join
20:37 papasrdl: finally
20:37 sasu: CAN U JUST SHUT THE FUCK UP ALREADY AND JOIN THE GAME ?
20:37 papasrdl: i know u ar ebitching around
20:37 papasrdl: to get win that u wont
20:37 Neme: can u read rules next time?
20:37 papasrdl: cause u are losing game
20:37 papasrdl: thats understandable
20:37 @WiNTERicDotA: can you act like adults
20:37 sasu: NOw stfu every1
20:37 papasrdl: but u are acting like animals
20:37 Neme: 1 disconnect =/= 2 disconnects
There is your context. Insulting opponents who DC and demand a remake. You side with them.
You are as bad as these guys who showed you the same little respect you showed us and still you side with them and ban us for calling you out on changing the rules and ruining the game.
Your tournament is only as good as the people who play with it and if you aren't being fair then no one will want to join knowing you just let clowns join and ruin games with you siding with them. You were fully informed of the teams behavior and we were the ones who messaged you about this in the first place.
Why are you showing this to me now, instead of during the tournament? This is literally the first I've heard of it. I would've disqualified them immediately, as we've done so in the past. If you guys didn't act like such children when you lost the game I would invite you back in to take that teams spot, but using an autotyper (on three separate steam accounts) to spam the text "YEA IM MAKING MY OWN RULES OA WINS TOURNY BE DEFAULT :D" is unacceptable.
Cause you were being an asshat and do you think we want to continue after you gave an abusive team the chance. We all DC'd and won't be playing again.
Again, nobody told me you guys were smoked, nobody told me the team was being abusive. All the information I had was that you guys didn't want to load from the save because the rules stated that you didn't have to remake if you didn't want to. I made my decision based solely on the fact that the game would only be rollbacked three seconds.
Not having the transcript of when you join makes it hard we basically gave up on the tournament when very clearly a few of our member messaged you about this and you chose the "I refuse to be wrong" stick around so what is the point of continuing to play in a league that does a disservice to it's members.
I can understand it can be hard to moderate these things but if its really is too hard when several members of the same team write you about something and you choose to ignore or just disqualify people cause you don't want to deal with issues than maybe you shouldn't be running a tournament.
We played fair, were courteous, and even agreed in the end to let them have their remake which in the end just ruined the game entirely for us. They played against the rule, were insulting, and refused to have anything but their way which you gave to them when you sided with them.
Hello Seventhings. Thanks for showing up.
I will be a little blunt in saying that you were very impatient in mediating the conflict. You came in to the chat, and the enemy team was spamming pretty harshly about how we need to be disqualified for taking too long to join their remake. I tried to address this issue, about how they disconnected from the game and told us to rejoin the lobby and did not wait while we tried to contact an admin about our issue (hence why we took a while and were hesitant to leave the game, worried about the smoke issue), but you quickly said
EVERYONE STOP FUCKING TALKING OR I WILL DISQUALIFY BOTH OF YOU
And respectfully, I said no more. The enemy team kept talking anyway though and it seemed like an idle threat as they weren't penalized for this. I'm not trying to be hostile in saying that, but it made the interaction more difficult. After that, it pretty much went "who was winning at the time?" and then "it's only 3 seconds, it's literally no difference. You will play the remake" (paraphrased)
and then you left the lobby. We had no choice but to resume and hope that the recent patch last night fixed the relaunch buff placements (an issue I have been long aware of and have recently reported)
When we loaded back in, there was no smoke, and we paused to try to contact you about this issue. Papa tried to talk to you about it, but I don't know what happened. Whether you were unresponsive to the matter or whether you were preoccupied, but the other team was harassing us for repausing it after the launch, saying we were trying to just get a free win (the same thing you had accused us of doing, after which you dismissed our issue entirely.) The time was up for our pause and we continued playing and that's really about all we could do.
Reaper was not in that game-- we had a stand-in in his place and he had just at that moment came online and wasn't fully aware of the situation. It felt like our attempts to talk about the smoke issue weren't heeded, I didn't have a way of contacting you myself, and the situation was already heavily escalated, ontop of which you threatened disqualification for out-of-place talking. Moreover, we can't simply say in the lobby chat which includes the enemy team "We were smoked in their mid-lane and as soon as the game re-launches we will be de-smoked."
I appreciate your effort for professionalism, and I understand mistakes happen especially in tournaments where tempers are high. But we had been facing some accusatory/insulting comments from the enemy team for a good 10 minutes prior to the event and much of my team was quite frustrated. It felt like admin intervention in this case was hasty and a little pre-judgmental.
It's too late to change anything for this particular conflict, obviously, but I hope this will at least instill a little more patience and sobriety for future moderation.
i know, fuck the admin cause he's a douche and retard taking desicions with no apporpiate amount of time
FUCK YOU MOTHERFUCKING PIEEC OF SHIT. I GOT MARk (FROM SPEED) ADDED--->GO AND BE FRIENDS WITH THAT ASSHOLE U STUPID FUCKING RULE ABUSE SHITFACE MORON!
I admit to saying stop talking or I'll DQ both teams, as I wanted only the captains from both teams to talk (as a 10 person conversation in a match chatroom is unreadable). Once I realized the only thing that would happen was a three second rollback, and that you were trying to win the match by trying to rulebook the other team when it would have done nothing to you to play off the save, I told you guys to play it off the save.
Again, I had no knowledge of this smoke issue, and once the game had started (and as you claim the smoke was no longer there), I didn't receive any more contact. Nobody messaged me from your team regarding it.
It's very easy to contact me, and requires you to simply add me on Steam, or if you're already in our group chat room, right click on my profile and click "send message". Nobody did this though, and thus the decision stayed, as I didn't hear anything more about it.
And again, you should've spoken up about how the other team was treating you.
I appreciate at least one of you trying to talk to me here in a civil manner, but at the end of the day I ruled a fair decision with the information I had at hand. Telling me all this four hours after you lost your match doesn't do anything for anybody.
I feel like we were also extremely courteous to the other team about the altercation as it happened. They paused, we simply said, "Please wait, we need to have an admin remake this."
They all disconnected besides one player, who was becoming hostile with us quickly, "do you really have a problem?" and "you will be dq'ed for not joining the remake" and such commentary.
I do understand that you weren't given enough information to make a proper judgment, but I feel that's because you steered the moderation over the issue of us not rejoining in a prompt time, and as soon as that was resolved you left and severed contact with us. I do not know what was said between you and papakarcher, but I know that we -did- pause for the full 5 minute duration upon reloading to try and discuss the issue of the smoke of deceit with you. The issue wasn't those three seconds, the issue was the smoke debuff. It was at a crucial moment because we had been keeping an eye on the ancients and on luna.
Looking at match ID 464986854, (the disconnected game), shows what we were paying attention to in-game. Luna had an ogre club. Her ancients were stacked and she was (at the time of the DC) advancing from the river toward her ancients. We were set up in their mid-lane with clockwerk hook just off cooldown and the other three of us coming up from the back of the ancients, all under smoke. We had been planning very tactically to attack at that crucial point. It was a significant change of events. We were not trying to "rulebook our way to a free win." We were trying to reclaim the right to win on our own merit, which we were deprived of by their sudden disconnect. Had they the patience to wait before remaking the game, and let us talk to the admin first, it would have been different. But rather than being able to discuss it in that manner, we had to defend -ourselves- from the threat of disqualification.
I am curious if your team did
"using an autotyper (on three separate steam accounts) to spam the text "YEA IM MAKING MY OWN RULES OA WINS TOURNY BE DEFAULT :D"
if it is true you guys are too immature to be allowed into any tournaments.
Here is the last contact I had with Papakarcher, your teammate that you claimed talked to me about the smoke:
OA* Papakarcher: admin you need to join our game
SevenThings: ?
OA* Papakarcher: this is
OA* Papakarcher: like
OA* Papakarcher: they all just dced
OA* Papakarcher: then want to remake
SevenThings: i thought you were reloading
SevenThings: from save
OA* Papakarcher: we are
OA* Papakarcher: i dont understand why though
SevenThings: he said he couldn't join
SevenThings: back into the game?
OA* Papakarcher: the rules said
OA* Papakarcher: that he cant remake
OA* Papakarcher: if both parites agreed
OA* Papakarcher: we never agreed
OA* Papakarcher: they just left
OA* Papakarcher: please join our lobby
SevenThings: coming
OA* Papakarcher: pw is 11qaz
OA* Papakarcher: we are being spammed with stfu and join game
I then proceeded to join your game, and give my decision.
Nobody ever talked to me about this smoke thing :\
edit: and here's proof of this conversation (along with your teams actions once you lost the game): http://imgur.com/a/yg3OY
I had wanted to contact you over the issue, but karcher and reaper were already talking to you, and (during the pause post-relaunch)
Reaper told me that you said we were already out of the tourney for being disrespectful to you, or something like that.
It seemed like a lost cause.
As I said, I know nothing can be changed at this point. The game ended a while ago. And even by the time we continued playing I felt that the issue had already gone beyond a point of resolution.
We'll leave it as it is.
Just try to be more patient and diligent in future moderating. I understand it's probably your intention to do so, and I don't place full fault on you here, but I just feel like it was handled badly on all parts. The other team was disrespectful, it made my team frustrated and on-edge, and the moderation seemed brief and dismissive. It felt like trying to drag the issue on any longer was going to result in "alright, I've had enough. I already told you to replay it. You're out of the tournament."
****
I'm not sure why the smoke issue wasn't mentioned. I thought that's what was trying to be communicated to you upon re-launch.
I'm not sure anything about that spamming either.
I'll make sure to have my team let me do the talking in future conflicts.
The moderation seemed brief and dismissive because all I heard from your team was "we want them disqualified because we don't want to remake a game where the game is rolledback three seconds". Literally, that's all your team was saying. Considering you were losing, and that you DIDN'T SAY ANYTHING ELSE, I ruled in the favor of the other team. To me it was literally: one team is disqualified or the game is rollbacked three seconds. Any self respecting admin would never rule in the favor of your team with the information i was provided.
LOL 25 % WINRATE LOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOL HOW CAN SOME1 SO BAD BE INVOLVED IN A TOURNEY LOL HAAAAAAAAAAAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAAHAHAHAAAAAAAAAAAAAAHHHHHHAAA
That's all you gave us time to say.
Literally:
STOP FUCKING TALKIGN[sic] OR YOU WILL BOTH LOSE
"Who was winning at the time?"
The other team lied and said it was 19-9 when it was 16-11. The issue of who was winning we said was "debatable."
Then you left.
Are you the host of this tournament, by the way? I'm not trying to "take this issue higher", but I had other things to talk about with whoever manages the event. Not bad things.
It is your teams fault for handing the situation poorly. The admins can not read minds and the fact that you only told them half of what was going on and EXPECTED them to know 100% of the information is just insane.
as a bystander, this is my opinion ( since u used public forum to settle things)
this is 80 % of admins fault and 20 % of team's (for not saying about smoke in time).
Really, rules are made to follow. If these rules dont work, you can't change them on a whim. End game in favor of a team which was team OA (following set rules), change damn rules AFTER game. 1 team happy, 1 unhappy, rules followed, everyone trusts tournaments organizers.
now what u got - 1 team happy, 1 unhappy, rules changed during game ( like slrsy?), people start having doubts about this particular tournament
Let's be honest Moon, if you wanted to contact me, you would have been able to. Just because I left the lobby of your game doesn't mean you're not able to message me personally on steam or in the group chat room. Nobody attempted to either, despite you saying they did (which I provided proof of as well).
You guys only started complaining about the smoke once you lost, and by that time members of your team were spamming the chat so it was unreadable (as shown in the above image). One of your members even said "so enjoy the reddit witch hunt. peace."
Additionally, the rules were never changed during the event @intro. It clearly states you don't need to remake unless otherwise instructed by an admin. I used this rule to take all information into account from both parties to declare a ruling that would be FAIR TO BOTH PARTIES. If I had ruled in AOs favor, and had disqualified a team because the Steam servers were acting up (in a game that they were winning), when the game could easily be reloaded with just a three second rollback, that would be even worse than the situation that we have here.
@Moon. A friend and I created this from the ground up. We've handed out over $800 in cash and gear in the last two months, and only expect to make half of that back. We host these tournaments purely for the community, out of pocket. You're welcome to email us at contact@leagueofdota.com, and we will genuinely work at any of the suggestions/complaints you have for us, but in this case we did what was best with the information we were given, and we stick by that decision.
Edit:
do you guys really have to attack us on our social media as well? http://imgur.com/8fVfefS
I'm sort of done talking to you guys. This'll be my last response because it's just looking like you're a bunch of children. Spamming our chatroom, attacking us on social media, blatant lies on this forum? I am honestly astonished that you've taken it this far.
Thanks. Expect an email in a couple of days.
I'm aware of the tournament's origins and just wasn't sure who the originators were.
****
I haven't lied about anything here.
I feel like I've been very respectful.
There seems to have been miscommunication between me and my team, but I've said everything that I believed to be truthful.
20:35 papasrdl: guess u didnt expirence the life yet
You are not required to remake at any point, even if the team has a disconnect, unless otherwise instructed by an admin.
You were instructed to remake.
Yes, you haven't fully explained your point of view to admin. Which is partly his fault cause he was rushing things. And this is his only fault.
What's your reaction?
Let's keep everything to yourselves, spam chat and make a big fuss on some public forum. And hell, don't even try contacting admin, cause you "felt like trying to drag the issue on any longer was going to result in >alright, I've had enough. I already told you to replay it. You're out of the tournament.<".
How is this logical? Just say sorry and back off. You've been insulted, lost your temper and acted irresponsibly.
Pretty much sums up your attitude to moderating your tournament "This'll be my last response because it's just looking like you're a bunch of children"
you and the members of your team need to get out into the real world if you think throwing a hissy fit and spamming was the right course of action. Your mother might put up with it but most people will not
Моля, впишете се, за да публикувате коментар.
League of Dota is the best amateur tournament to play in for starting teams.
We did resolve the miss-communication we had with the admin.
We did overreact due to slack of sleep
and we apologize for our attitude and acts towards the admin.
sorry