General DiscussionHow to Mid?

It depends on the hero...

Pudge for example.. As soon as he hits 6/7 he should be roaming out to gank.

he is there purely for the solo exp and an occasional last hit generally will always lose his lane.

However OD On the other hand is there for the 1v1 match up where he can abuse his Imprisonment on one hero and gain a tremendous amount of extra last hitting power to farm much more easily and quickly and shut down the opposing mid.. He likes the lane simply for the relatively simple\easy 1v1 match up and easy farm+levels..

its really hero dependant when you should be leaving lane.. but always be ready to help your team just carry a tp and communicate with them

Regarding the match i havent watched it because i dont know how to do so lol, But when i take viper to the mid lane.. i will literally skip boots to finish my mek ASAP and buy a tp and go to a lane thats getting pushed\needs help and come in after the fights started with the mek burst heal and turn the fight around

that being said you probably lost cause shadow shaman lol tower damage non existent

unless wards dont count towards tower damage on hero or something

he also had stats at level one. lol

Look at skill build of Shadow Shaman, +stats at level 1. If he said something bad to you, just ignore this troll.

True that good mid players can last hit and deny every creep, siege mid tower, control runes and gank other lanes - all at the same time. But if you just farm, don't feed, protect your tower, say "missing" and ping on minimap where you think enemy may go - you doing ok job.

I level stats on accident at level 1 a lot when I think I alt tab and then I'm typing but it registers as stats.

Depends on the hero. If you play a snowballer like QoP/Pudge/Storm/Puck you go gank. If you play something like Invoker/OD/Sf/Naga you can stay on lane and get tower/farm.

It definitely depends on the hero but on viper I think you have two goals.

First goal is last hit and deny like crazy. Deny their mid farm. Viper is extremely good at last hitting with nethertoxin. You should've put 1 point in poison attack sooner though to harass. Viper can just sit in lane harassing, last hitting and denying against most mids with ease. When you get a chance push the tower but that's not your main focus, just get farmed up to get mek and boots asap.

Second goal is possible ganks. Viper is a weird ganker because at 6 his ult crushes people but he has nothing to really get in position so you will need to be very aware of wards and if the other mid calls missing and people back up you won't be able to gank. If the don't ward it's gg. Wait til night, go grab a rune and go around their mid and you can often kill them if they don't ward. Viper isn't on the same ganking level as qop or puck but he can be good if you position right.

They usually feed the opposing mid then blame supports while they are sf and they are facing sniper. That just dies with razes in 2 seconds.

Viper is a really strong mid. He's not really mana dependant so he can give OD a run for his money. Against OD just stick a point in Corrosive skin early, then harass him with poison attack. If you get the runes OD is your little bitch.

Your job as Viper is to get every last hit, and deny a lot. You should be able to get 50 last hits in the first 10 minutes without too many problems against pretty much anyone.

Personally though I think Viper has better utility in lane most of the time. The reason being is that Nethertoxin can do a lot more relative damage early on and with the help of another player to chip away at the enemy hp you can start dealing big Nethertoxin blows. At level 5 you'll be gettin +20 damage on someone just after a few hits. Combined with your slow and a stun from someone else you can take down people easy. A first blood is great for viper as he can rush a Mek and then you can team fight like mad.

With most mid laners, they want the fast levels, then they generally have something at level 6 that will make them unstoppable ganking monsters. TA has her trap, Pudge has dismember, etc.. Also in mid, rune control, not all mids get bottles, but most do and should. SO when a rune is going to spawn, push the wave on the last creep wave or two before rune spawns, this will let you get the rune with minimal EXP and gold loss. If they want the rune in a wave pushed to their tower, they will lose out on a lot of XP and gold.

Also, when mid you have to know when to be aggressive and when not to. If you have ever seen dendi play mid, he just farms, and harrases a little bit, then all of a sudden he will use everything he has on you in an instant and basicly "gank" his own lane.

But once you have won mid, make a few ganks, then push down the tower after you have sucred your other lanes. (this is for most mids, not all)

Get towers

step 1 pick magnus
step 2 supports gank your mid lane until youre permanently dead(srsly even the respawn system rejects you)
step 3 spam in chat game is hard
step 4 dc and cry on db forums
step 5 go to lol and feed for fun/smoke weed

Biggest thing is during the pick process trying to counter pick their hero regardless of all pick/ captains mode/captains draft. Its critical to have that game sense.

Looks like the only viable mid hero you commonly play is viper. I would not pick him versus the following:

Zeus
OD
Lina
Invoker (hit or miss depending on his build qw or we, its a tossup)
Death prophet.

So all in all.... the basics of the game are most AGI heros are countered by INT heros due to the AGI hero having low health and low magic resistance. So being nuked down is easy.

Your best matchups would be vs an AGI hero or a STR hero mid really. (Remember to get your armor up against a sniper or drow since you move slower than them and give some dmg return because of their range/mobility)

Otherwise, since you don't have any other mid picks that are over 20 plays I don't know what else to tell you since this is a very broad question.

Really? Viper can crush all those squishy heroes, the only one that's really bad is silencer since he has no way to drop the dot.

nah i prefer nethertoxin at lvl 1 because the orb barely slows, and his regular attack is pretty much the same thing at that level

unless you're in a melee lane or a tri lane where your slow can still be useful

@ wookie

Agreed on silencer he is a bastard to all.

I put those in there because they can stay far away and nuke you. Agreed if viper gets close enough to snag one of those I listed then they are dead meat. Most cases they will stay their distance and cast out of your right click attack range.

Especially silencer.... my most banned and hated hero.

Zeus maybe, I think the others don't nuke nearly as well until they hit lvl 6, which you can build a big advantage before then.

Silencer is a direct counter to viper but he has counters too. Kunkka and huskar can mess him up. Even sniper is pretty good vs him.

Yeah sniper is good vs silencer agreed there since he hangs way back and pew pews all day.

Well alright I'll debate my counters vs viper a bit but then I must test my software code so I can get out on time....

Lina: Aoe buff 1 pt in stun. The AOE will be enough to stay back and nuke viper down since it reaches far.

Zeus: same

OD: Keep the stacks of INT steal topped off at 3 then viper can only use his orb effect on you one cast only. Then right click him to death.

Invoker: Doing the ol cold snap and the golem thingies is enough to keep viper out of his range. Throw down an EMP every now and again to keep his toxin mana down.

Death prophet: Crypt swarm and stay back it has a big range.

Anything that is magic with a big range with high nuke potential is big against viper. I mean I won't argue the fact if you pick any of those versus viper and you stand in the river early game and chase viper you won't get owned. That goes for about every hero you can pick. I'm just saying high range/nuke potential against viper to keep away from his orb effect is a hard counter to him.

zip, zap, win gaem

Idk every time I face off vs invoker he doesn't do crap to me, lina's stun is easy to dodge and her dragon's breath isn't enough dmg on its own. If you stay behind the creep wave enough she can't continue to attack you or the creeps will rip her up. I think you should try some of those heroes vs viper and see how difficult it really is to mid vs him. Death prophet is a bitch cus crypt swarm is near impossible to dodge and she will spam it if you don't get the runes, and I'll give you zeus, he nukes so hard, but the others don't scare me, I'd rather be viper in those matchups.

GENERAL guide: dont miss too much xp, harass safely, out last hit, rune control correctly and make the right item choices. gank once u can (get runes, smoke, enough xp)

Against Viper Lina has no chance and Zeus is not a threat. A few orb attacks and they are dead. Lina and Zeus have mana problems early on and there nukes aren't that big till they have 3/4 points in them, so just control the runes and they are screwed. Her W is second only to Jakiro's ice wall in being the easiest thing in the game to dodge. Her nukes are countered with a few Tangos and a Salve, and also the bottle you should have by the 1 minute mark. Get the creep on your side of the river and they will be zoned out. Every Orb attack is going to do at least 60-70 damage and if you get them near 50% health they are food to you. If they keep nuking they are just going to push the lane onto your side.

OD is more of an issue but you should be getting a bottle anyway. His prison has a longish cooldown to start with and as Viper you should be making a strong start. Viper is great at robbing people of XP, so you should be hitting level 6 way before they do. OD is much harder to deny against than the rest which is what makes him much more of a threat imo. OD is probably considered the best mid in the game though.

Try Zeus or Lina against Viper in bot mode. That thing hits 12 levels in 12/13 minutes sometimes. It is pretty insane.