General DiscussionItem build discussion: Shadow Shaman

blink dagger for a fast hex initiation

I would say mana boots -> force staff or euls -> blink -> aghs -> refresher

just buy blink dagger, skip everything else

I was thinking just going 6 iron branches and feeding roshan my corpse over and over Sampson :P

Anyone else with more than 2 or 4 plays on this character that's played it more than 1 year ago? :P

Holy shit if you can't see why Blink Dagger is core then you shouldn't be playing even. rofl

I'm not a good Shaman, neither played him much since I was new to DotA.

http://dotabuff.com/players/80225057/matches?hero=shadow-shaman&lobby_type=&game_mode=&match_type=real

Dang dang.... youve played shadow shaman 27 times for 25% wins and used blink dagger 4 times.

You know I may as well not post on here and just do research on my own. I get it after Satellizer's comment for fast hex initiation. Why troll me when you don't practice what you preach? Thanks doucher.

don't mek. It'll delay your scepter. Also will make you a bigger target cuz they would like to take you down before you ult towers. Forcestaff instead of blink. I would only go blink if game is already won. It'll delay your refresher.

blink dagger is a core item on shadow shaman. The ONLY time I would accept not buying it is if you plan to end the match by the 20-25min mark

Caveman, what does my winrate and usage of blink dagger on shadow shaman have to do with this thread? big rofl

I think going force staff or eul's is a good idea instead of mek if anyone else can get mek.

The progression you have shown looks good to me. I'm by no means a skilled SS player. I played his clone in HoN a decent bit, but he's one of those chars I just don't like.

iirc eul's sets up snake trapping pretty easily, maybe someone more experienced can give you a better idea

euls on SS is like buying force staff on BS sure it makes your ulti stronger but it hurts your team in the long run

^wise man, new fanboy

Ah finally some real conversation. Thanks real human beings.

@ Dang dang My point is you're usually cool with me, you usually post some type of well thought out idea for me or someone else on the forum, then you just first time trolled me. I don't get it. I just asked a question and you respond with I should quit the game, and my second point was you didn't practice what you preach? Be cool dude wtf happened to you?

@ Everyone else

Alright I will get blink as core from now on. I get the hex/shackel initiation and I like the force staff out of danger idea.

Yeah that game I had to get mek somehow my other support was poor and couldn't buy wards or mek until 40 minutes in (Dazzle).

Thinking I'll go this way so far:

Standard ward bitch build:

1. wards/sentries/dust/tp all game.
2. Mana boots
3. Force staff
4. Blink dagger
5. Mek (if no one buys it)
6. Ags scepter
7. Refresher orb.

Thanks guys.

The problem is SS always gets slotted as a 5 slot and you never have the gold to buy all that crap. Boots, blink, force, aghs, refresher, that's like ~15000 gold. At 350 gpm that's 45 minutes if you buy nothing else. I don't see how you're supposed to get all those in one game without kill stealing.

I think it also depends on your team makeup and their team makeup. What's the point of a blink hex/shackle initiation if their team is never split up? Your so squishy initiating on a group or 2 or 3 will get you killed. If your team has no push or tower dmg going aghs sooner is better.

@ wookie

Yeah that was a long ass game last night so I know my build won't amount to that every game and is extra rare for a support to get 6 slotted. I'm thinking I'll only be able to get wards/sentries/dust/TP all game, mana boots, force staff OR blink dagger and not both.

Last nights game was waaaaay too long. I am paying for it now. I've probably drained a pot of coffee at work so far. I didn't get to bed until like 1:30AM but went to bed at like midnight, then got up @ 5:30am to do my workout and daily grind @ work... Really need more sleep! I just get too excited to play after a 12 hour day, I come home tired, then eat, spend a bit of time with the kids/wife then they go to bed around 9:00pm then the nights all on me after that.

Why am I typing this? I must be really tired...

Mana/Phase Boots
Blink
Push Stick/Aghs/Euls/Sheep

If you're having trouble ward trapping, start off with hex. Because the chicken moves so slow, click just ahead of them and they should be ward trapped. Shackle if you think they can attack their way out or phase or blink or attack you back. Also make sure wards attack the hero if there are stray creeps around. Pretty nice if you can have a teammate set up a stun/slow for you.

as a support. buy small items. Rule #1. no item >3000 gold allowed.
always carry wards sentry tp and dust if again invisibles.
that leaves 2-3 slots. you need 1 for boots (most likely mana boots). you need one or two bracer. 1 for mek . or small items like urn

Thats all.

if you have too much gold buy more wards and sentry and smoke.
if you have too much too much gold buy a forcestaff or eul and that's it. and leave the rest gold for buyback
if you have more gold . then its most likely its gg already. buy whatever you want. desolator. mkb. but not divine.

support buy scept, refresher, hex, shiva, bloodstone. is SIN. never ever buy items >3000 gold.

I think SS is better as a mid than a support. Needs levels/items badly. Support can work, but if you fall too far behind, it may be unrecoverable.

^ it's totally fine to fall too far behind as a support (5 or more lvl behind). as long as the team carry in good shape.

"Thats all.

if you have too much gold buy more wards and sentry and smoke.
if you have too much too much gold buy a forcestaff or eul and that's it. and leave the rest gold for buyback
if you have more gold . then its most likely its gg already. buy whatever you want. desolator. mkb. but not divine.

support buy scept, refresher, hex, shiva, bloodstone. is SIN. never ever buy items >3000 gold."

If you do that in a pub and you lose, its your fault.

Just saying

@frostychee, not really. All he needs is lvl 6, serpent ward towers, gg. Like if all you do is literally shackle people in team fights and drop serpent wards on towers you are contributing. Plus shadow shaman is so good in lane since he has multiple disables and a good nuke, he is nice lane support.

You guys all agree on mana boots then blink dagger or mana boots then push stick/force staff (whatever you'd like to call it.)

I kind of was wanting to do mana boots then the push stick because of the mana pool and regen stats + blink dagger doesn't work if I'm hit for 3 seconds is why I would hate getting it first. push staff/force staff always works. Which way?

@ whoji:

Yeah my build that I have #'ed out isn't intended for typical games. Its for those rare occasions where say it lasts over an hour (zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz wha? am i still playing?) I mean I did the usual courier/upgrade courier dust/sentries/obs wards all game and let dazzle go 4th slot. Somehow I ended up affording all that crap though even then. I agree its a sin to buy an item over 3k gold on a support and I was ward bitch as usual.

Again I think the typical build/game time usually would afford me the following for a 25-40 min avg. game:

1. Mana boots
2. Force staff
3. Blink dagger.
4. Mek if no one buys it

I see it panning out this way more since I have to hold wards/tp/dust/smoke. The other is just the rare occasion the late late late game happens. I eventually bought a gem of true sight and gave it to storm spirit so I didn't have to hold dust any longer but did the sentries occasionally for dewarding.

Yeah I forgot I ended up getting urn last night and a mek. I feel maybe if I went urn i could skip a bracer since it does the same hp boost as bracer? Storm spirit was angry I didnt go mek so to appease him I did that also. I don't think he was smiling after either way.

I dont know about ss because i dont play him

But when i am playing lion i rush blink after tranquils

Well this game above I only had 5 "kill steals" out of 59 total kills for the team. 3 of the times I was assisting storm spirit to lock down the dirty furion ratting us big time, 2 were accidental. I didn't want him to get away so I just spammed all spells I had to ensure he was dead. I have been trying not to kill shot guys and let the carry grab the cash, but theres those occasions where you have a slippery enemy that you want dead no matter what KS or not.

So far it looks like frosty chee has played the most shadow shaman games out of everyone out of here. I am assuming from his comment and item build he goes mid with him since he is grabbing bottle.

Shadow shaman is fine mid, but if you roll him mid you really want one other pure 5 slot support or maybe even make ss the 3rd slot and a 4th and 5th slot support. Like ss mid, sand king 4 slot, cm 5th slot and two carries in lane. But those kind of picks almost never happen. What usually happens to me is someone picks a 3 or 4 slot support like centuar, spends the game farming blink and ss is needed in lane.

^^ Yeah I would rather do him like in a Tri-lane situation or 2/1/2 being safe lane or offlane support. I don't think I want to try and be cool and roll with him mid. I kind of like watching my teammates I have been rolling with the past month getting last hits. (Not hg clan members apparently its pretty dead...)

My personal favourite is arcades > blink > force (sometimes) > necro book. Te amount of damage those things can do on a disabled target is insane. I remember one game I was winning as ss, on other account I think, but I 1v1 killed a ursa 40 minutes into the game without using ult haha

Hmmm I like your idea jammin. Sounds like a fun build for extra push too. I always LoL when I run lycan with necro lvl 3 then enemy heros die by attacking my creeps. Must be unknown in trash tier to not attack red necro creep! :D

SS works well in aggressive dual offlanes if you have good positioning and a good lane partner. My fave ones are cent and tusk

* only if dual lane vs dual lane

Scepter is not very good on shaman better get refresher before it and get aghas refresher when you cant finish the game