they wont nerf chrono, theyll nerf something like his mana pool or hp.
icefrog rarely nerfs the spell that makes a hero useful.
i honestly dont think he needs a nerf hes not OP at all but they will nerf him just to change the meta =/
nah. Other heroes getting buffs will balance him in the meta.
Only reason he is getting picked so much is because he can offlane or safelane and cause of skywraith.
Nerf him please, everygame that this hero gets a little bit of farm early he rolfstomps the game
At least for me
Plus he counters muh slark
Resize his ulti to 300,make it cost 800 mana, remove backtrack, make his bash have a 35 minutes cooldown, make timewalk a passive and also change his agi per level to 0.5. He will still get picked, but i think a little less.
His early/mid presence needs to be reworked, void lv 11 with mom and maelstrom does too much damage. his bash doesnt need to do double damage in the chrono
Lower base damage, bash doesn't do double damage inside chrono and maybe a little less base HP.
He prolly won't get nerfed, i can't see him being that great. It's not like lycan who gets 100% pick&ban
I hate voids so much, one messed up ult and you kill your whole team.
Last game with a void on my team he chrono'd trapping 3 of us in his chrono.
Perfect for wd's ult to rapes us and Invoker to rape us and drow to rape us, he only did it 3 times though.
Hero was picked in 62 of 428 games during TI, with an overall 42% winrate. Totally needs a nerf guys. Wanna know something cooler?
Lycan was picked 44 times (and banned 329 times, holy shit that 87% pick/ban rate) with a 63.64% winrate. BANNING Lycan (which is almost always done by the team with second pick) has a 49.24% winrate.
You think Chrono warps games? Lycan warps games so fucking hard he makes you lose even when the enemy team doesn't get to fucking pick him because you have to burn a ban on that rabies-ridden shitcan instead of, say, banning Wisp *and* Enchantress against Fnatic.
@Hardcore Heathen
Well said sir.
My take if Void is nerfed before Doom then someone's brain needs checked.
Yeah void's not getting nerfed, stats above just show what I saw which was no void picks in the finals, I don't think those teams ever used him.
You know what? No one said Lycan is balanced. He just wasn't played almost at all so people didn't see his impact on the game so they got their focus on a hero that was both picked a lot and had a lot of impact and that's void.
there a 20heroes who can crush his entire game
the only reason hes so played is because there are some ppl who still dunno how to play vs him.
but void is starting to being pick less n less as ive seen.
its like xin back then, ppl just didnt know how to handle him and now look at him
@Sam: Yeah, I know, nobody is saying Void is worse than Lycan. I'm just saying...when you think of heroes that need a nerf, the stats don't really support Void as a hero when you compare him to other problem heroes, of which Lycan is the most obvious.
@sorrows: I'm just pulling stats from the esports page under The International league stats. Unfortunately there's no way to separate qualifiers from main event, but the bigger sample size (even at the cost of including B-list teams) probably makes up for it.
Other heroes of note:
Mirana is still the most picked hero by a ridiculous margin: 192 games with a 53.13% winrate, compared to 2nd place treant with 136 games and a 54.41% winrate. Seriously, just buff her base damage and nerf the fucking arrow stun already.
Of heroes picked more than 20 times, Weaver actually has the highest winrate of TI4 at 65.67% after 67 games. If you're paying attention, you'll notice that he has a *higher winrate than Lycan*. The only other hero you can say that about is Visage, who won 64% of his 25 games.
KotL, despite not being played in a *single game* at the main event, had a 61.54% winrate in 26 qualifier games. He was only paired up with a PL three times.
Then we have the opposite end of the spectrum: the trashest of trashcans.
Bloodcyka, whose only victory came when Zephyr fucking RANDOMED HIM BECAUSE THEY RAN OUT OF TIME. That's the level of trash-tier Dota play that is required of both teams for this hero to win.
What do Lion, Wisp, Jakiro, Chen, Windrunner, Naix, and Tinker all have in common? They're the only heroes with >20 games who had a sub-40% winrate (Jakiro was sub-30%). For reference, Sniper averaged a 40% winrate in his 5 appearances.
Naga, who everyone hates for being stupid OP Keisha bullshit, has a 42.5% winrate. She probably doesn't need a change though; doing anything to break up the deathball meta (nerf mek?) will probably fix her main problem of not being able to come online before enemies start 5-manning.
Invoker, Brew, Razor, Storm Spirit: 45% winrates. "Standard mid" heroes are basically all in that trench, with only a handful (TA, DP, DK, Kunkka) above 50%. Kunkka was played as a support several times, so looking at TA, DP, and DK, the thing they all have in common is ridiculous physical damage and ability to take towers. Makes sense; meta is about deathballing. Invoker needs levels more than any other hero, Storm can't get pickoffs because people run as 5, same for brew, and Razor is just a shit hero in general.
Now, obviously there's a lot more to how picks and bans work than "hurr durr we ban this hero and our winrate goes to 70%" (that's for people banning Centaur, btw). There's strategy, and synergy, and Dotabuff's esports tab doesn't have a "picked with" option where I can select games with multiple heroes to see how they fared together. (I imagine the tiny/wisp winrate is higher than the wisp/whatever winrate).
But just looking at the overall stats...most of the heroes we hate and view as OP bullshit are actually not winning a whole lot. And looking at the *style* of heroes that are played heavily (more than 20 games) and win a lot (higher than 55%) they're either pushers (Enchantress, DK, DP, TA, Luna, Enigma, NP, and Lycan), heroes that can single-handedly win teamfights (Enigma, Witch Doctor, Earthshaker, Doom, Luna), or heroes that are essentially impossible to lock down and kill that are still good at pushing down towers (Lycan, Morphling, Weaver, NP).
TL;DR: The meta heavily rewards heroes that can quickly clear waves and push down towers. Because teams are running at towers like Don Quixote at windmills, heroes with the ability to turn the tide of teamfights at low levels while also providing laning advantages are very very important. Your supports aren't going to be 6 by the first (or probably second) fight, so semi-reliable AOE disables are glorious. Finally, having your carry be a hero that can clash early and not die due to inherent tankiness and mobility means he can show up to the fights, not die and lose farm time if it goes south, and split push when things are going poorly.
How do we shake this up? Nerf mek, nerf tower bonus gold, nerf the teamfighting abilities of the evasive carries, change distance of mid towers to make mid less of a "safe" place you can stick any squishy dirtbag and expect them to do fine (Drow, PA), buff damage of late game items/heroes, buff towers.
Or we can stick with current meta. I like playing Weaver.
The current meta's fine. I mean you have to remember this is all for super high level play. Bloodseeker is like 53% win rate overall. I don't really care if he sucks in the pro scene. I don't think the goal is to make every hero equally good at the pro level. Goal should be make it so one isn't just over the top op (like lycan is now) and balance the rest more around pub play. Who cares if naix or sniper suck at pro level? They're fine in pub matches, just have pros not pick them.
On the subjects of nerf I would love to see radiance have its godlike AOE radius nerfed. I mean its sad walking around as Omni and his pitiful AoE to see this thing basically walking around like the sun.
no PA doesn't need a nerf, she fulfills a specific niche and is otherwise useless because blur doesn't save u from ravage/finger/echo slam and nobody likes rushing bkb cuz ur left with a 4 second magic immunity by 35 minutes while doing shit damage
Tide needs a nerf on his 3rd ability, every retard just clicks e and then all of a sudden u can't right click him or last hit (well u can, but he'd have to be a super retard not to be able to deny with 2x ur damage)
Funny thing is some heroes are so good and yet still the morons can't stop playing Furion.
I rarely rarely ever see Tide in game unless its group games.
@Mark the meta should and WILL change. It's one of the core concepts of dota.
As for heathen's list, I'd say he's pretty spot on about what needs to change for the meta to change. Though it is of course, not the only thing that can change for the meta to change either.
Void can easily be countered and takes a while to be relevant. Just try to prevent him from free farming in the game and counter him with like silencer, euls scepter, bane. Until void gets a few key items all he has is chrono. Without chrono for most of the game void cant do any damage do you. He wont right click you down outside the chrono without a couple lucky bashs without a few core items.
@Mark: I agree; the game shouldn't just be balanced around the pro scene. And it isn't; that's why SB got nerfed into the ground a couple patches ago. Pub Breaker.
The game is, after all, built on the pubs. It's the pub players who buy compendiums and watch TI and tweet and hype and make it so that Dota is this $11 million thing that shows up on fucking national television. And the pub players want to have *fun*.
You know what's fun? Variety. New things. Everything from tweaks to heroes, to new game modes, to new shiny items, UI changes, and more. That's why the meta has to change: to keep the game fresh, new, exciting, and most of all, *fun*.
So, stats aside? Naga will probably get nerfed. Or Radiance will. Watching that shit is 9001x worse than PL; it's like having AIDS and Cancer and your house foreclosed on while your gf breaks up with you b/c you don't <3 Bieber at the same time. Same for Tinker.
I agree.
Radiance will be nerfed.
Something to DOom will be nerfed.
Side note please make ARDM a normal game type kind of lags the way it is now.
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So many games all about the chrono, which really gets boring. Think maybe a cd increase or size reduction inbound?