i think its impossible to a 3.7k play vs a 6.5k guy without having a 6.5k (or near) on your team
show us the match you are talking about
averages have always been the same for me for +- 25, I have screen shotted and hundreds of ranked games and this is the one consistent thing
of course if you selectively compare highest mmr against lowest mmr it's a different story
wow, the overall MMR is much higher on Dire.
Maybe report this to dev.dota, seems like a hardcore bug.
That's because MMR is a dumb system. ELO in Dota 1 was way more accurate, and would calibrate how many points you gained/lossed based on who was in the game.
"^
thats what mmr does too smartass, it is identical to Elo in this regard"
Are you stupid? Or can you just not read?
MMR you gain 24/25 points no matter what. ELO varies depending on who is in the game.
Elo, not ELO, gives identical changes whenever both players have an identical rating. When one of the two has a higher rating, he or she is favored to win the matchup and hence receives lesser points for winning, and more points for losing.
Now MMR does exactly the same thing, but with team averages. Idiot. When one team has a higher average rating it is favored to win and hence receives less for winning and more for losing. In this regard it is identical to the Elo system. Please continue criticizing something you obviously dont even understand.
Zenoth, y u so salty?
And yeah, but is a team of 6000,3000,3000,3000,3000 actually fairly matched against a team of 4500,4500,4500,4500,4500?
Yeah, no.
And in my case, (I didn't screen it, but it was something like this)
3700(myself), 4600 (my friend), 4500,4200,4000
vs.
6500(zyzz), 4500,4300,4000,4000
Something like that, but this is purely off memory of a game that happened a couple weeks ago. Nobody was <4k except for me, I know that for sure. I think there might have even been a >5k on his team, but I don't remember. Also, his rating was 5.6k in the game I think, 6.5k is his solo rating. So that makes a difference, but it is still a huge mmr leap.
how am I being salty? ? are you unhappy that I operate on facts rather than blind conjecture based on fuzzy memories?
and your memory is probably off, there was probably a 6k player on your team if it was +-25.
why dont you actually record proof?
and when you take his solo rating instead of his party rating of course it makes no fucking sense, is every game havoc plays intrinstically flawed because he has much higher solo mmr? it doesn't exaxtly work that way - his party mmr reflects to some extent the kind of people he stacks with.
"Elo, not ELO, gives identical changes whenever both players have an identical rating. When one of the two has a higher rating, he or she is favored to win the matchup and hence receives lesser points for winning, and more points for losing.
Now MMR does exactly the same thing, but with team averages. Idiot. When one team has a higher average rating it is favored to win and hence receives less for winning and more for losing. In this regard it is identical to the Elo system. Please continue criticizing something you obviously dont even understand."
Except MMR DOESN'T do that you dumb sack of shit. Do you even play this game?
The most it varies is by one point in any given game, which is not proportional to whatever MMR differential there may be - ESPECIALLY in games like OP mentioned. Meanwhile ELO is extremely sensitive.
Like I don't understand how people can be so dumb to not understand such an easy concept.
are you so fucking stupid? I have 30+ screenshots of -30, +5, -4, +45 etc etc as a result of mmr imbalance favouring one team over the other
I even got a +5 for losing with a 700 average mmr difference once, and I have the screen shots to prove it
just because you have never been the top stack doesn't mean it doesn't happen
fucking idiot arguing out of his ass
I just think they should find another answer to high rated players
This whole lets put 3k-4k players with 6k-7k is just wrong, even if it averages both teams at the end. I dont care if there isnt enough high rated players, there must be a better solution for this shit.
The problem i see is that MM belives that if both teams averages at the end the game is balanced, i really dont think so, putting players with 3k differences ( or even more ) in the same team is just wrong.
the alternative is +5 for every game because your teammates aren't dumb enough to handicap you
not exactly attractive either way
i never seen 6000, 3000.... x 4.5k guys and im pretty sure the 6k team will win most of the time
what i have seen tough, and it happened on my match last week was something like:
my team:
6k guy
4.3k guy (me)
2 4.1k guys
1 4.2k guy
opposite team:
1 5.9k guy
2 4.3k
1 4.2k
1 4.1k
pretty balanced imo
but yea the system right now is a bit flawed when a 6k+ guy is playing because we don't have enough players in that bracket so the system has to compensate it in one way or another
its unfair not for the high rated guy though but for the lowest rated players on the game because they are supposed to be playing at their bracket (which probably has enough players queueing) but instead he is put against a guy twice as skilled as him
yesterday i went mid and a 5.9k guy of the other team went there, i got stomped hard (not as hard as i thought it would be though)
i would be pretty comfortable playing vs another 4k rated guy there but a 6k one was just too much, we had a 6k aswell so the game was pretty much which one of the 6k guys can stomp harder, wasn't much fun for anyone else in the match i suppose
Man, one of this days i am going to get matched against/with a 6k player, and like i only play mid the enemy 6 k is going to go mid and i am going to get fucked, my 6k will probably be playing support or something like that.
At least i play on EU West and this server is usually full of people when i play so the chances are really low i guess.
"yesterday i went mid and a 5.9k guy of the other team went there, i got stomped hard (not as hard as i thought it would be though)"
Yeah that its what i fear it might happen to me someday :/
the guy killed me once and because i was fucking noobish but he dominated me in lane (i was tinker and im fucking dumbfuck with this guy, if I was on TA perhaps i could stand a chance).. i couldn't farm, he was like always 1 step ahead of me, it is good for learning you know
I called you salty because you're swearing your head off insulting everyone. Does nobody know how to debate without calling people idiots? lol
And no, I already told you their MMR as far as I remember. It isn't a perfect recollection, but there definitely was no 6K on our team. Our highest MMR was my friend at 4.6k
zenoth is one of the finest guys here dude, he is polite and tries to help out ppl whenever possible
Yeah it might be nice for learning, i have terrible lanes mechanics so it would be fun to be against way better in lane than me.
Zenoth is usually right, not nice, dont confund things Sleave.
Being nice is to know that someone is wrong and still understand that there is no need to call that person a idiot. For example i am being nice when i dont call idiots the people who posts about religious stuffs on facebook. Even though they are idiots.
I doubt it would happen to have a 6k guy vs a 4.6k on the other team, unless its a 5 man stack (both teams) then it ~could~ happen
but your other 4k buddies would be having the same skill difference stomping the 2k guys in the 6k team than the 6k will have stomping you guys, the difference is that he is only one and you guys were 4 (in advantage, since the 6k was in one lane, all other lanes should be winning)
but still its hard to believe, never seen such a gap, whenever i see a 6k player on my games there are such rated players in both teams
@dorkly in like 1 week or so maybe i could catch up if I could play vs him like 2 hours a day
atleast on laning phase
Like i said before if you have pics or the game still has a replay you can report this to dev.dota, looking at the dotabuff stats i dont see a 6k player on your team.
I am usually nice until people start saying stupid stuff without basis, I dont usually start making things personal
now people feeding misinformation nonstop gets on my nerves
"are you so fucking stupid? I have 30+ screenshots of -30, +5, -4, +45 etc etc as a result of mmr imbalance favouring one team over the other
I even got a +5 for losing with a 700 average mmr difference once, and I have the screen shots to prove it
just because you have never been the top stack doesn't mean it doesn't happen
fucking idiot arguing out of his ass"
Ok, even if that does happen, it still is besides the point since Dota 1 ELO operated on an individual basis and not on a team average, which is STILL less accurate.
So you better sign back up for those reading lessons, because you still fail at it you worthless sack of shit.
oh man i love when someone calls out "sack of..."
it only loses to the spanish cursing like conchetumadre, weon, en culo, etc
^^ this is the kind of idiot who makes my blood boil - loses an argument, resorts to insults
my personal standard is to respect if that person has a valid point, regardless of my personal feelings
It's almost certainty expired. It was 18 days ago. IIRC replays only last 8 days, and I don't have a screen of MMR anyway.
Like, I'm not even mad, it was a super close game, and I almost beat the fucker. I just don't understand how MMR can be this bad.
dota community best community
yesterday i said: "can i go mid pls"
and a guy: "fuck you u cunt go suck a dick"
:D
and instapicked pudge
doesnt the fact that it was a close game indicate it was fairly balanced - proof that mmr was not bad for this game?
like I said its perfectly possible the game coordinator fucked up but from the hundreds of games I have played I doubt it is the case, so chances are its your memory at fault
I didn't resort to anything, because I won the argument. Logic isn't hard.
And you were the one that opened up by saying "smartass", so sorry, intelligence fails you twice in a row.
redefining "winning the argument" LOL
yes I started this because you were spreading blatant misinformation and blaming a system you didnt even understand in the least
your very first post showed how misinformed you were as you did not even realize MMR adjusted winning/losing values based on the favored team to win
hell you don't even understand Elo
"Dota 1 ELO operated on an individual basis and not on a team average, which is STILL less accurate."
HAHAHA
1. Dota 1 ELO operates differently
2. Dota 1 ELO is more accurate than MMR
3. Dorta 1 ELO is more sensitive than MMR regardless of if MMR gain does vary by more than 1/2 points.
I am right on all three points, which is the entirety of the argument that was originally made. Sorry that the fucking idiots that gave birth to you passed on their worthless genes.
If you are telling me that you can respect someone who is a fucking dick as long as they are right then well ........
I cant respect people who believes that they are better than others ( even if they are, i dont care ). A good example of this is Sampson, he is usually right, but he is a fucking dick.
You can tell someone he is wrong without insulting.
1. Your argument was that Elo is better because your rating's changes is adjusted for whether or not your team is favores to win. MMR does the same. You were ignorant of this fact.
2. Dota 1 matchmaking systems were a general cesspool of filth, you didn't eben substantiate your argument with anything and called yourself correct.
3. See 2.
logic, motherfucker, do you have it?
oh god this is almost worse than playdota idiots advocating Vanguard TB and other cancerous stuff
@dorkly
when I argue with someone I base it on rational logic
sometimes like now when I get invested emotionally I will insult and stuff because some people cross my threshold of tolerance
if they can show me that they're right though I will admit that im in the wrong
problems is they don't even argue based on logic
see the thread with espik-kun we got a heated argument but resolved it with logic and I respect him for that
It was close because I'm not actually 3.7, take with that what you will. But I stack 4-5k all the time and do fine, and my smurf is also 4.9k I just would rather get my main up there. I'm sure you'll say that's BS, but whatever.
Even so, how does a 3.7k player not get more points for winning a 4k game? Not a single person was below 4k in that game, and we didn't have anyone above 5k, but they did. Those are the facts I know for sure. IMO 3.7k guy should get like 40 points for winning that game or more, and 6.5k guy should get like 15. Not 25 for everyone. It seems silly to me. And why doesn't MMR take things like KDA/GPM/XPM/HD/TD/Wards/Smoke/Dust/etc. into account?
No, it wouldn't be perfect, obviously, but still better than simply based off of wins.
One guy mentioned that MM should randomize teams instead of stack them to be closest to 50% wr. (Find 10 closely skilled players, then randomize teams) it would remove the handicap that better players always get, even if minor.
I insult the ones that insulted me, but i woudnt insult the dumbest person in the world if he didnt start insulting me first.
Still i understand your point, its not really easy to have patience with this kind of people ( i am laughing reading the what this Relax I'm Better Than You guy is writing )
@Marlan
You realize than having a 77 % winrate with ursa means that if you played him in your ranked games you probably would go up by a lot right ?
Моля, впишете се, за да публикувате коментар.
If the system is so fair and perfect, why is it that..
3.8 vs. 3.8 = +/- 25pts..
3.7 vs. 4.9 (win) = +25 pts..
and
3.7 vs. 6.5 (loss) = -25 pts..?