less bottle crowing to make up for the courier change (speed boost is 4s not 20, and cooldown is 90s not 40s)
and rewarding teams that have supports rune control
i dont get why PL had to get his agi gain nerfed though
the change to juxtapose's illusion % damage and max illusion number basically made them deal the same dps as they did previously if his agi was not changed
By the way guys the necro thing was a buff to his early game
The hero is already really good, now if you kill someone who is lvl 6 he would take 20 seconds to respawn ( i think is 20 not sure ) instead of 30 % more respawn time of 20 ( almost nothing ) is 30 extra seconds.
This only gets bad when the respawn times are more than 100 second ( late game )
Instead of 20 second respawn the enemy will need 50 second to respawn at fucking lvl 6, its a pretty big buff
i dont play chen at all, but doesnt he only farm fast if he has stacks and uses the tornado creep on them. early game he has time to do that because people are laning.
later on his teammates will prob take his stacks and since chen seems to be a hero that is strong early mid game and tries to win early, he'll be pushing often with his mek which gives him less time to farm
it's not like chen is going to farm the whole game or find only good ganks.
why would you swap mek for urn since chen is all about AoE healing to deny AoE damage? I've seen good Chens cancelling clutch daggers with satyr shockwaves and small ranged creeps.
chen's core is mek + arcane (that's 3750, add the upgraded courier, 4k)
then he needs to choose between Force Staff, Ghost Scepter, Gem or Aghs.
we still have to test it to see if its worth to skip your "core" to rush it.
You would really go for a force staff or host scepter over an aghs that gives you black dragons etc? Those are huge creeps that will get buff and have innate spell immunity.
You get still get the meka, but those are huge creeps.
>what I'm trying to say is, by the time you get that 4,2k, the other team will be able to easily kill your creeps.
That is the part I don't necessarily agree with, Given that they are magic immune and gain health I think those creeps will be very tanky and require the carry to deal with them rather than supports.
Before, PA would be invisible in the minimap if she was close to a enemy hero. Now, if she is not close to an enemy hero, she will be invisible, which means she can gank way more effectively (works like a built in smoke of deceit, you can only be seen if there are sentries and the enemies are looking direct to the point you were walking to, you will not appear in the mini map)
Lets say you're playing PA mid, you decide to gank. You're on Radiant and intend to gank their offlaner. Now, if they don't have enemies around you, you'll be invisible in the minimap all the way (so, you can gank walking by the river, doesnt need to hide in the jungle), until you are close to an enemy.
Basically, it's a free smoke of deceit for PA, which was an item she was likely buying if she was playing as a ganking mid. Those costs do add up. If people could deal with a PA buying smoke and ganking, they should be able to deal with the new blur. Pubs likely will have trouble with this, but the game's rarely balanced around pubs, what with heroes that are typically pub stompers either getting buffed or left alone. That Necrophos buff is fucking huge.
oh god you are right dorkly. Yea that is a big deal.
As for PA it sounds really good, but you can still see PA if you are watching for her. She may not be on the mini map but you can still see her if she is visible on your screen.
Going to be similar to watching out for hooks and arrows from fog, except when you don't see PA on the map, you need to look to your ward spots?
Also I feel like Icefrog is trying to make Timbersaw played more. Already builds bloodstone, but soul ring is a good item on him as well. Now he also has something that allows him to do even more dps. Shivas plus double chakram anyone?
@Concede, in low lvl pubs people don't really care about base dmg and stuff, having a permanent invisibility at lv1 with good hp regen is way better than having blink strike
with the reduction of base dmg it would theorically nerf his laning phase, but with perma invis you can position yourself to always backstab creeps so you will still have good dmg
there is also the hidden nerf to the PA change. we have all been in those situations where you are fighting a PA and you have a team mate like 2 seconds away but he doesn't react until you scream "PA is Violating me" over the mic and ping the map 50 times, since he cant see her on the mini map. free smoke is good, but there will also be situations where it will save someone PA is trying to gank.
he is losing blink strike till level 6 which serves as his primary initiation and escape at low levels, and the perma invis has a 8 second fade time at level 1 which is basically an eternity in dota.
perma invis is just for lane staying power that early on.
your kill potential is more limited pre 6 than it is currently if you were to have a 1-1-3 build while lane staying is better in return, but when you're 6 and above your kill (and escape) potential is way stronger than it is currently.
plus it forces enemy supports to spend more gold on sentries against you earlier into the game
idk if the riki change is a nerf or a buff, on the one hand he wont have blink strike in lane but on the other once he hits 6 he can have 3 lvls in back stab and will be able to do 2 or 3 blink strikes in a row, which will give him a ton of burst damage. the loss of fade time might not mean much since every one spams dust if there is a riki, you just use it to get close to them and avoid being spotted by wards/creeps not to run away. the HP gain will be nice at the least I always feel like I am running around at half health or buying useless items to heal, when playing riki.
Clinkz with HOTD sounds legit
^
new meta lone with mom and mallenstorm
clinkz with mom
bounty rune?
so, no more RNG factor?
2 mid laners running for dat rune, one gets an illusion and the other extra gold
why.jpg
less bottle crowing to make up for the courier change (speed boost is 4s not 20, and cooldown is 90s not 40s)
and rewarding teams that have supports rune control
i dont get why PL had to get his agi gain nerfed though
the change to juxtapose's illusion % damage and max illusion number basically made them deal the same dps as they did previously if his agi was not changed
Chen is still so stupidly OP with Aghs i dont even know what to say.
Those ancients he will grab are magic immune as well when they are persuaded... and he buffs their health
WTF
By the way guys the necro thing was a buff to his early game
The hero is already really good, now if you kill someone who is lvl 6 he would take 20 seconds to respawn ( i think is 20 not sure ) instead of 30 % more respawn time of 20 ( almost nothing ) is 30 extra seconds.
This only gets bad when the respawn times are more than 100 second ( late game )
Instead of 20 second respawn the enemy will need 50 second to respawn at fucking lvl 6, its a pretty big buff
chen doesn't farm that much
- X Marks The Spot cooldown from 13 to 14/13/12/11
kunkka is the next cancer
go attacker's build and get free mmr
since when does chen have an issue farming? Dude can pull out a really fast meka (which just got nerfed).
He can just go urn (which now cancels blink dagger) and then go straigh into aghs.
i dont play chen at all, but doesnt he only farm fast if he has stacks and uses the tornado creep on them. early game he has time to do that because people are laning.
later on his teammates will prob take his stacks and since chen seems to be a hero that is strong early mid game and tries to win early, he'll be pushing often with his mek which gives him less time to farm
it's not like chen is going to farm the whole game or find only good ganks.
why would you swap mek for urn since chen is all about AoE healing to deny AoE damage? I've seen good Chens cancelling clutch daggers with satyr shockwaves and small ranged creeps.
chen's core is mek + arcane (that's 3750, add the upgraded courier, 4k)
then he needs to choose between Force Staff, Ghost Scepter, Gem or Aghs.
we still have to test it to see if its worth to skip your "core" to rush it.
andddddddd no one cares about necro
50 seconds respawn instead of 20 boys
You would really go for a force staff or host scepter over an aghs that gives you black dragons etc? Those are huge creeps that will get buff and have innate spell immunity.
You get still get the meka, but those are huge creeps.
@dorkly edit: dorkly is correct
force staff is a must in a lot of situations, the utility this item offers is uncountable.
sometimes you need the ghost scepter, if someone is hunting you over, your team will miss mek, ult and your sendback.
what I'm trying to say is, by the time you get that 4,2k, the other team will be able to easily kill your creeps.
of course, if you're stomping/won every lane, a fast aghs to push would be awesome.
edit: fuck necro
>what I'm trying to say is, by the time you get that 4,2k, the other team will be able to easily kill your creeps.
That is the part I don't necessarily agree with, Given that they are magic immune and gain health I think those creeps will be very tanky and require the carry to deal with them rather than supports.
Thunderhide has 1,4k hp and 74 base damage
Black Dragon has 2k hp and 64 base damage
Granite Golem has 2k hp and 82 base damage
they are magic immune yea, but slow as hell (270 movement speed all), not that high damage, and Thunderhide is the only one with a skill.
they are very tanky indeed, but what would you do? Throw them at the tower or to chase their carry?
why is a dumb disgusting 2k redditard trying to theory craft or claim whats OP and not
>Chen is still so stupidly OP with Aghs i dont even know what to say.
yeah maybe in ur 40% winrate vs bots on passive level rofl
ogre magi will be ridiculously op in pubs
double midas LD is back
and better than ever
Slark
Slark is no longer visible inside Chronosphere during Shadow Dance
FUCK
YEA
@dorkly he has to get the aghs first, and he will probably still want to get meka first unless someone else on his team has a meka.
No, the respawn delay works without aghs man
Aghs only makes you unable to buyback
Templar Assassin
Psionic Trap cooldown from 11/9/7 to 11/8/5
yes
omg every hero i play is getting buffed
~~looks like this is a big thing
If you kill the enemy mid once with your ulti the game is done, 50 secs without farm or exp
Can someone explain the pa buff?
Before, PA would be invisible in the minimap if she was close to a enemy hero. Now, if she is not close to an enemy hero, she will be invisible, which means she can gank way more effectively (works like a built in smoke of deceit, you can only be seen if there are sentries and the enemies are looking direct to the point you were walking to, you will not appear in the mini map)
Lets say you're playing PA mid, you decide to gank. You're on Radiant and intend to gank their offlaner. Now, if they don't have enemies around you, you'll be invisible in the minimap all the way (so, you can gank walking by the river, doesnt need to hide in the jungle), until you are close to an enemy.
Thanks, sounds slightly imba. Time to see Loda's pa come out
Basically, it's a free smoke of deceit for PA, which was an item she was likely buying if she was playing as a ganking mid. Those costs do add up. If people could deal with a PA buying smoke and ganking, they should be able to deal with the new blur. Pubs likely will have trouble with this, but the game's rarely balanced around pubs, what with heroes that are typically pub stompers either getting buffed or left alone. That Necrophos buff is fucking huge.
oh god you are right dorkly. Yea that is a big deal.
As for PA it sounds really good, but you can still see PA if you are watching for her. She may not be on the mini map but you can still see her if she is visible on your screen.
Going to be similar to watching out for hooks and arrows from fog, except when you don't see PA on the map, you need to look to your ward spots?
Does anyone know if the new bounty runes can be bottled? I'm assuming they could be but I'm not too sure
yes you can bottle bounty runes.
Also I feel like Icefrog is trying to make Timbersaw played more. Already builds bloodstone, but soul ring is a good item on him as well. Now he also has something that allows him to do even more dps. Shivas plus double chakram anyone?
riki can now pubstomp since lv 1
^
seems like a nerf to his early game frankly.
2 hours until school starts
tried to sleep for ages now but my mighty body won't fall asleep as the dota hype omg..
@Concede, in low lvl pubs people don't really care about base dmg and stuff, having a permanent invisibility at lv1 with good hp regen is way better than having blink strike
with the reduction of base dmg it would theorically nerf his laning phase, but with perma invis you can position yourself to always backstab creeps so you will still have good dmg
there is also the hidden nerf to the PA change. we have all been in those situations where you are fighting a PA and you have a team mate like 2 seconds away but he doesn't react until you scream "PA is Violating me" over the mic and ping the map 50 times, since he cant see her on the mini map. free smoke is good, but there will also be situations where it will save someone PA is trying to gank.
Death of deathball? Seems ironic
@the number 12, most likely it will gonna be much more of "MISS? FUCKING NOOB IM AFK BASE"
@sleave
he is losing blink strike till level 6 which serves as his primary initiation and escape at low levels, and the perma invis has a 8 second fade time at level 1 which is basically an eternity in dota.
@ sleave but every one will always be missing from lane, since there are 2x more runes
oh didnt pay attention to the 8 secs fade time
anyway they added those runes to avoid ppl from bottle-crowing since it will take ages now
perma invis is just for lane staying power that early on.
your kill potential is more limited pre 6 than it is currently if you were to have a 1-1-3 build while lane staying is better in return, but when you're 6 and above your kill (and escape) potential is way stronger than it is currently.
plus it forces enemy supports to spend more gold on sentries against you earlier into the game
but srsly this ogre magi is ridiculous for pubs
idk if the riki change is a nerf or a buff, on the one hand he wont have blink strike in lane but on the other once he hits 6 he can have 3 lvls in back stab and will be able to do 2 or 3 blink strikes in a row, which will give him a ton of burst damage. the loss of fade time might not mean much since every one spams dust if there is a riki, you just use it to get close to them and avoid being spotted by wards/creeps not to run away. the HP gain will be nice at the least I always feel like I am running around at half health or buying useless items to heal, when playing riki.
edit: Androgynous beat me to my point
I still think riki will be a decent offlaner