Wisp is 53% in pro games.
Dragon Knight is 37% in pro games (47% in very high)
I've concluded DK is bad. Which I agree he is myself. He is a jack of all trades but a master of none. You can really just ignore him and kill his team.
He sucks for two big reasons. And a smaller third one.
1. Sucks at farming unless you get bottle and spam fire breath. This kinda pigeonholes him into a mid role and most pubs still run him as a safe lane carry which is not nearly as good. Melee mids are generally harder to play too than ranged ones in pubs.
2. Completely different hero with ult down. I mean he kinda sucks when dragonform is down and the range on his stun is awful.
3. His base move speed is AWFUL. That combined with his low stun range is deal breaking many times cus people just run away so easily.
They could fix him pretty easily and bring him in line with other str heroes. First make his fire breath 100 mana all levels and his stun 60 or so all levels. That makes him similar to ck in mana expenditure. Wk's stun cost more and he needs to save mana for res, but he doesn't have 2 more actives to use.
Then buff his freakin stun range. Centaurs aoe on stun is 315. Wk's range is 525, ck's 500, sven's 600. Dragonknights is a pathetic 150 and only 400 in range form. It should be at least 350 in melee form and then like 500 in ranged. This would make his stun a billion times more reliable since you don't need ranged to get it off.
Buff his base movement to 300 and reduce the dragon form buff to 15 or get rid of it altogether. It's not really needed since he has a slow in level 3 form anyway.
If you want to sum it up in one answer though it's farm. He's hard to farm with and you just don't see people farming well with him. They also don't farm that well with sven or wk but at least those guys have cleaves and lifesteal/crit. It's kinda like ck, ck's never farm well either.
Doyou realize that you could buff a hero in any way and it would make him better? there's nothing special about the buffs you suggested.g
Peoples always buy helm and never use it to stack which can be a big deal as he isn't the fastest farmer otherwise.
![[Lk].Zano](https://steamcdn-a.akamaihd.net/steamcommunity/public/images/avatars/b9/b98e01ce6ef4a5e926a44cdd1564d0e8e5fbfa36_full.jpg "[Lk].Zano")
Giving more range to a long lasting stun with an instant cast time that belongs to a carry hero? I think that's exactly why it's cast range is basically melee.
The buffs I suggested specifically target what I view to be his major shortcomings. A buff like oh let's give him 6 more base str or an extra half str gain per level and it wouldn't really help him that much cus it wouldn't address his farming issues, mana issues, move speed issues or stun range issues.
I like the way the stun works right now because you can kill retard mids by insta range stunning from melee form by casting your ult
I feel like one of the big things that has made him the loser of patch after patch is the nerfs to bottle-crowing, his slow ms makes getting runes kinda awkward, and other heroes beat him in wave-clear
His only problem is his damage. He needs to do more damage. Currently you can just ignore him and unless he is insanely farmed he won't be able to do shit.
Why does he only have 46 - 52 starting damage as a melee strength hero? Most strength heroes hit really hard early, while DK's hitting with a toothstick sword.
I don't think his stun range should be tweaked with as it would be unfitting for the character. If DK should smite someone from 350 range he'd have to throw his shield at you. In dragon form it's 400 range because like the name of the skill he hits with his dragon tail. The cast animation, duration and 9s cd makes it still a great stun anyway. It just has poor damage and scaling.
Agree with sam, he needs to be able to do damage. It's a shame- I love it when my team picks a carry that has some sort of stun or teamfight ulti. DK's stun is pretty solid but I feel like it should scale a little better. Maybe to 250 damage at level 4. Or, Breathe Fire could have a lower mana cost/ secondary effect.
Lol to the guy saying Dk sucks at farming, get dominator and stack ancients, you can clear a 3-4 stack at level 11 without any problem, I think this is the best early-ancient-farming hero in this patch actually
ecsta44 - you gotta use dragonform to clear the ancient, that means your ult might be in cd before a team fight happens. This is why hea bad, he needs dragonform 24/7, just like nightstalker needs night, except nightstalker got buffed and can pop ulti every team fight at daytime.
Yeah blowing your dragon form just to farm sucks so badly. He's extremely dependent on that form to do any reasonable dmg. And just cus you can farm an ancient stack doesn't make you a good farmer. That depends on you stacking them, enemy team not pushing and messing the stack up or taking it, and having space enough to go clear it with ult. That's a ton of variables.
What happens when you pick dk?
1 - Farm like a snail until hod.
2 - stack the ancient.
3 - get lvl 11.
4 - pop dragon ult and kill your stack
5 - get ganked
6 - lose your stack to axe
7 - dragonform in cd, cant team fight
8 - gg
If they were to finnaly fix all heroes to have such an easy time with mana management, dk, ck.... would have an easier time
matrice how do you balance mana management of Meepo? the little guy has 5x BoT which allow him to play like tinker with infinite mana and HP regen of fountain at his disposal, all the time. I actually RUSH BoT on Meepo like nobody's business, if icefraud tries to rebalance mana management of many agi heroes including troll and meepo, how do you make meepo feel the change? what's your suggestion?
The real "problem with DK" is that people try to play him as a role 1. He has no scaling abilities other than cleave while in ult form and I'd call that a pretty weak scaling ability. Play him as the 3 his skill set screams and knock it off trying to make him carry.
Most people play him as a 2 actually. Just make Dragon Blood give some damage as well, it's dragon blood for fuck sake, it should make you stronger.
DK needs to get Maelstrom ASAP (2800 gold) an he will be fine for the rest of the game. It makes him somewhat similar to position #4 heroes, like Earthshaker (he needs arcanes or soul ring + 2250 for blink).
@soultrap that makes him like an alch carry, which always scales bad for late unless very far ahead. With alchs crazy gold income it might happen, but dk? Too slow.
Dragon Knight is a hard carry, and needs a serious gold advantage to stay formidable late game. They need to at least give him some minor buffs on his stats.
Alchemist on the other hand... a major stat buff would really help.
@Young Princess Zelda - A major stat buff to alch would make him OP i believe. I would rather buff his abilities to make alch support better instead. His stun is so easy to dodge. His spray has the cooldown of an ulti and well his passive is kinda trash if you cant last hit due to ennemy pressure.
Alch suffers cus his stun kinda sucks and his spray is long cd and if you don't max greed then you'll end up behind in farm. So something's gotta give there, don't really think he needs more stats.
Buff dk's speed to 300 base, give him extra 100 range on his stun and I'd be happy. Then his slow farming won't matter as much cus he'll have much better utility.
Timberwolf suggestions are actually pretty legit and would make this hero at least more viable, if not good.
@kitrak - the thing is theres alot of hero who can do what he does but better, like said about hes a jack of all trade, master of nothing. Same for alch it seems. You talk about your medallion combo being so good on paper but in a real game, any halfbrain retards could avoid. Sad truth tbh :/
@dravic, I don't want heroes to have as much as ck's mana problem. Jugg's mana prob is mb slightly too harsh for carry. But just make the list of heroes that need ZERO into mana, and still have no prob.
Most hero should have the mana management of riki, you can be oom if you spam (even with aquila)
Imo the following heroes have too much mana / too low mana cost.
Beast, Centaure, sniper, zeus, furion, panda, et, wisp, riki, troll, lina, jakiro, ogre, lanaya, bristle, clock, timber, rubik, sky, oracle, earth spirit, dp, pa, shadow fiend, tb, enigma, pugna, skel, viper, dazzle, bat, void, slark, razor, spirit breaker, magnus, tide, doc, aa, legion
Ofc some of this list have WAY too much mana / too low mana cost, like oracle, sky, earth, magnus.
But when you have a simple arcane boot, and even without using it you can spam like no tommorow during a fight, there's something wrong about the mana management.
Don't get me wrong, i'm not against the fact that some heroes should have 0 mana prob, but more than 40 of them is bullshit.
Heroes such as oracle sky and earth spirit should be on par with the mana problem troll have currently, and almost all other, should be between jugg and riki mana problem.
There's a reason why CM was fucking beast, despite having horrible stat, horrible weak spell (apart from froste bite lvl1) long ago.
There were just much more issue with mana at that time, no bullshit soul ring, no arcane boot (note that nowaday there's much less arcane boot, and still almost no mana problem !!!)
Back to topic, not only dk has Mana problem, he also need AS, Damage and HP, while most carry need only 2 of those 4
@matrice
You totally wrong. All heroes in your list actually have huge mana problems. I can agree with you only on PA. Sky, Oracle and many other heroes from your list have Bloodstone as a core item because they can spend their mana too quickly.
I always find that when I play DK I am super tanky but do next to no damage.
- Fight starts
- Get kited and basically ignored
- Rest of team dies
-Gets focused
- Ded
He can push towers alright early but overall he's very ... meh
Maybe something as simple as a larger radius of splash damage in ulti form would give him some more team fight presence?
All alch needs is for the armlet HP drain to be fixed..... medalion plus lvl 1 acid is -11 armour... that's insane!
I think the thing that killed DK is the lack of buffs after the gyph changes and the fact that all other bkb heroes got buffs to make up for bkb being pretty gash, except DK... It's so much harder for him to acrue the early gold from T1 towers the way he used to. Maybe keeping the same uptime on his ult but having the intervals being shorter and more frequent might be a thing... so that you can atleast play a little around the glyph spamming early game. It may also have something to do with the bagazillion euls in a game just ignoring the shit out of him...
tl;dr: Either, improve his early push/change uptime timeing of ult to make up for glyph change or buff his midgame fighting due to every other bkb carry getting love cos bkb is trash.
"his 4 second 360 damage stun must suck ass"
That's if you can land it, one of the easiest stuns to los in the game.
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Tanky, great stun, good teamfight, can push, strong in all stages of the game.
How do people fuck him up so bad? He has a 46% winrate ffs