pretty sure that with equal farm PA won't be able to kill Sven. Because at that point you have to ignore PA's blur, and with sven's armour she will never tear through him fast enough.
im pretty sure it wont get to the point where sven can get 6/7 slotted when theres PA on the other team, usually most svens will go for MoM and thats pretty risky for sven. Back to the topic, Sven has more damage than PA but killing someone depends on who goes first.
Let's see their possible item builds. PA would get Abyssal-MKB-AC-Skadi-Mjolnir-BKB. Sven would get AC-Daedelus-MKB-Abyssal-Skadi-Mjolnir.
When calculated, Sven hits for 615 damage and crits for about 1432 with a 25% chance and PA hits for about 489 damage and crits 2200 with a 15% chance. But when calculating DPS including crits, Sven's DPS was 2297 and PA's DPS was 1,753. So, yeah Sven would destroy PA considering the significant difference in armor too (Sven has 63 and PA has 46).
These were calulated when Sven is using all his skills(WarCry and God's Strength).
I got my calculations from here:
http://devilesk.com/dota2/apps/hero-calculator/
PA with 6 rapiers deals 4174.50 DPS (without phantom strike buff, I guess).
Sven with 6 rapiers 2358.75 DPS.
We have a winner - PA!
GG, no re.
Instead of mkb on PA you could put a divine as on the other hand, sven needs his mkb, so imho PA deals more dps. PA can also wait sven's ulti to end.
@Spanac
I see some bias towards PA here, you could put a Rapier on Sven as well instead of the Mjolnir and wait for PA's BKB to wear out and then use Storm Hammer on her and we can go and on how they can fight each other. I just took a build which would be viable in an actual game (Rapiers aren't viable on these heroes, they don't need them). You can go into a Custom Lobby with a friend and test it out, I'm sure Sven will come out on top in raw damage output
Sven with crit and maybe a stats item like heart.
but they dont have the biggest dps in game. CK, Windranger have probably the biggest DPS.
Sven does bigger spread DPS because he has cleave.
PA does bigger single target DPS she has crit. Simple.
does it really matter? idk if higher single dmg output should be the factor that makes you pick one over the other, they're completely different heroes
For maximum dps sven needs daedalus and both need at least one attack speed item (moon shard/AC). A greater crit is worth more than 330 damage when you already have over a thousand. A 1v1 doesnt really tell their dps difference because of sven's superior health and warcry giving +20 armour. You need to do it on the same target.
A divine rapier should put it in pa favour , never seen a sven build divine but I dunno you would have to calculate it . A couple months back I think I calculated it out that on pa 2 moon shards plus one consumed moon shard plus 4 divines was most single target dps possible
Ah u bastards made me calculate who has most single dps , looks like it is wind ranger with 6 divine rapiers.
a sven with mkb daedalus has his ultimate doing slightly less than +100% damage
pa's do +52.5% damage no matter the stuff (apart friom mkb/mjol/diffu/basher/abyssal, in which case it's slightly under)
last pa i saw was myself in a game we lost Kappa and last sven , umm well a long time ago
What do you mean matrice? Sven ult only increases dmg from strength.
Single target max slotted though PA will always do more especially factoring in phantom strike. I mean if you tweak the builds on the hero calculator for just max unmitigated dps I was able to get PA to 4980 with treads, 4 rapiers and a moonshard. With blink strike active it shoots to 6700.
Sven with no inhearent crit did better with 3 raipers, moonshard and daedulus and got 4118.
But sven's aoe is going to be way higher, even with battlefury PA can't complete as it's 35% vs 65%
PA is easily a top single target dps hero. I mean it's very hard to calculate when you throw in heroes who depend on minions like lycan and meepo, but if you ignore them, I got troll to 6900 dps with 3 raipers, 2 daedulus and max fervor stacks plus ult active. Without ult he does a little less than PA.
Nothing else is that close unless you start to factor in armor like with a slardar or SF or factor aoe or building dmg like on tiny.
^
eg.
sven dmg @ 100 +81(daed) + 88(mkb) = 269
Gs adds 200 dmg
total = 469
actual dps increase => (469/269) = 1.74 => 74% more
compared to pa's 52.5% increase
pa may be able to burst out more damage in one or two crit strikes but she's a glass cannon. mkb sven should win in most situations, if you bkb-protect urself against a pa. be careful of that instant abyssal stun and blink strike into death
uhm a windranger with 2 crits, 3 rapiers, aghs and maybe eaten moonshard has to be pretty close maybe better than PA because, yea you do less damage crits but much more often, and attack more with that 3 rapiers
You also have to consider the uptime of Sven ulti though, it's only %31.25 uptime.
Sven has bigger DPS. Actually, if PA's single target DPS was anywhere near Sven's her winrate wouldn't be 49%.
PA has the edge and will win almost all fights. Just tested it.
It comes down to this: Sven MUST have a blink+mkb+abyssal to even try to kill PA.
PA can easily manta dodge or BKB vs. Sven storm hammer, so that's irrelevant.
Both heroes can instagib each other with abyssal. HOWEVER Sven REQUIRES the following items to beat PA:
Abyssal
Boots (travel/power) (I assume this is a real game, fgts)
Blink (he will NEVER get the jump on PA without this, and because it is an initiation battle, he needs this)
MKB (duh)
Daedalus (or he won't burst her during abyssal unless he gets lucky bashes)
BKB (or else PA can buy Disarm or Sheep)
However, if PA buys a manta, she wins.
The ONLY way Sven beats PA is by blinking on her following up with an abyssal blade. (A good PA will BKB or Manta dodge the storm hammer)... However, a good PA will manta the second Sven blinks, giving him 3 targets instead of 1. This split second advantage will allow PA to abyssal sven first and win almost every single time.
The reason PA wins is because Sven's anti-PA inventory is too restricted because he MUST buy MKB/Blink, whereas PA doesn't HAVE to buy anything. Otherwise Sven would buy Manta as well and it would come down to simply whoever initiates on who first.
If you disagree, come play lobby with me max build. Maybe I'm wrong, but I really don't think so.
6-sloted Sven rapes 6-sloted PA. I play quite a lot of both and i think it's pretty close to the truth. It may go the other way too, depends of a player and lucky crits/bashes really.
Btw Marlan, we can actually try lobby and we'll see :)
assuming this is a game sven has standard items, but pa has some nonrealistic items, i mean manta, daedalus, hex
Marlan - do you want me to show people replay of what happened in our match?
So people, those are facts:
If Sven initiates first: PA is 100% dead. If he initiated on me with HEX ( which is item PA almost never builds) he could drop me. BUT
I later changed my build to Heart + AC and he could not drop me anymore. I killed him with ease, even when he changed his build, so this Marlan guy is talking nonsense and not showing the whole picture.
Sven > PA in 1 vs 1 manfight any day of the week.
You're forgetting the part where you rage quit before I could change my build, when you changed yours. Getting rid of your BKB for more tank completely changes things.
As much as I'm sure you're going to retard spam me, I'm not going to be in this 12yr old flame war forever.
The point is, PA vs. Sven, whoever initiates first wins. And if you walk around without blink/lothar with maximum tank, you're going to get initiated on every single time.
I killed you AFTER you said you changed your build, i guess you forgot to mention that. So this RQ bullshit is stupid, cause i showed you you cant drop Sven and there was no point in staying in lobby anymore.
Point is - with the correct build, you can NEVER drop Sven and after your hex (which is imaginary item for PA anyway) and abysall, it's game over. You are immature enough to admit whats obvious to everyone else then you.
PA with; BKB - Satanic - Abyssal - MKB - AC - PT (agi) [+60 att speed from eaten Moon Shard]
368 damage / 38 armor / 0.44 sec per attack / 1275 DPS (with crit)
Sven with; BKB - Satanic - Daedalus - MKB - AC - PT (str) [+60 att speed from eaten Moon Shard]
402 damage / 34 armor / 0.49 sec per attack / 1108 DPS (with crit)
[When Sven activates his ultimate 780 damage / 2148 DPS (with crit)]
If Sven has Abyssal instead of AC;
497 damage / 19 armor / 0.58 sec per attack / 1157 DPS (with crit)
[When Sven activates his ultimate 895 damage / 2083 DPS (with crit)]
---
Sven with ulti probably would rape PA but if PA manages to activate Satanic, it'd be a longer fight than expecter. Without ulti, PA would be the one with higher chance for the win.
Nice, the setup for Sven to beat PA involves Abyssal, Blink, BKB, Boot so 4/6 are utility items. The other 2 are MKB (for obvious reasons) and Daedalus, no attack speed involved. No wonder he does jack shit.
Anyway, the 1v1 discussion is pointless, I believe OP did not mention anything about 1v1 in first post and just wanted to ask who had a higher damage output.
Sven kills PA even if he gets jumped on with the correct build. And when he activates his ulti and stun PA, in those 2 sec PA is dead from full hp even without crits. How can he activate Satanic then? :D
Yeah, OP could mean just pure dps. Well, PA crit is more reliable cause it's passive. However, it's only 15% chance. Sven's ult has cooldown, but we're forgeting the cleave, which can play a BIG factor in teamfights. I'd say Sven is bigger DPS-er then PA and probably the biggest in the game, with his ult on ofc.
lol in that video PA is allowed to have Hex+Abyssal but Sven has only what a MKB and no other stun than Storm Bolt. What a joke. Like I said, 1v1 wars are always pointless because anyone could backpedal with "m-muh different build" or "m-muh rapiers".
If Sven goes Heart + AC (which he should almost every game), no PA in the world (unless with rapier) can drop him in the time of abysall (and even hex). Since almost no PA builds hex, he only has abysall which is no way enough.
If the point is theoretical highest dps available, it's probably PL.
PL with; Diffusal2 - Manta - Butterfly - Skadi - Heart - PT (agi) [+60 att speed from eaten Moon Shard)
309 damage (+25 damage from Diff) / 34 armor / 0.35 sec per attack / 954 DPS.
But that's without illusions. His 9 own illusions deals 16% damage. 2 Manta illusions deals 33% damage. With possible max illusions out there, PL's DPS will be x3.1 of his original DPS. (himself, 1.44 from own illusions, 0.66 from Manta illusions) With that build PL will have 3594 DPS.
And this build has no crit or MKB. Get rid of Heart and get Daedalus, his possible max DPS will be 5520.
Of course, I'm talking about builds which would make sense.
Edit: I forgot to add Diffusal damage to calculation.
Edit2: CK with Manta - Satanic - BKB - AC - Heart - PT (str), when ulti activated if there's no extra phantasm 3538 DPS. If there is, 4297 DPS.
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Who deals more dps, six slotted with skills?