General Discussion

General DiscussionAdvice for the 1 position

Advice for the 1 position in General Discussion
KraToss

    Hi guys :)
    I started DotA last year and got given 800 MMR after a month of starting. Obviously this isn't great. I've played ranked every now and then since and managed to increase to 1.5k but I've resolved to finally try to become a better player.

    The only way I can get better is by knowing more about the game and playing better than my opponents so I've been looking around for some good guides to help me make some progress. Things I really feel I need to improve are decision making and laning.

    If you would be kind enough to look over some replays and maybe note down the major issues with my play I'd really appreciate it. Would also be grateful if anyone can recommend some good resources to help improve overall.

    Thank you. And please try to keep the negative comments to a minimum, I'm looking for genuine help.

    Holy Roman Empire

      I think the best way to improve is to watch some pro players from player perspective.

      Holy Roman Empire

        And read purge's guides

        arin

          ask zven

          Chaoshype

            Watch GameLeap, it's decent. Watch pro matches, practice with friends in Practice mode, use guides, be co-operative.

            BUSE

              position 1 is generally the position that fights less (depending on the hero) and farms more. Try to increase your gpm and cs. Watching pro games will definetly help.

              Alyosha

                Learn how to farm honestly. I have 100 more wins than you and im 4.8k- If you focus on improving and farming you should easily rise in mmr.

                TripleSteal-

                  8 H U N D R E A D M A T C H M A K I N G P O I N T S

                  Chadzpyre

                    honestly the fact that dota has "player perspective" replays makes learning heroes a joke. watch a good player do it, then copy them lol.

                    also screw purge, find someone who's good at the game and party up with them. play some unranked and figure out what works and what doesnt.

                    TripleSteal-

                      spam 1 hero untill u feel that u became familiar with him, then switch to the next one, sometimes come back to ur old heroes. get 7-8 heroes to your active pool.
                      generally, at this point u need to practice as much as u can, reading/watching stuff wont help that much.

                      KraToss

                        Really appreciate the comments. :)

                        Any ideas of what pro players would be best to watch? My favourite heroes are Anti-Mage, Spectre, Slark and Invoker. I'll try to add to that pool a bit before I go on my ranked spree.

                        Metallicize

                          watch eternalenvy/illidan/rtz for carry

                          Metallicize

                            jugger is fun, you can try pa, ta is really good if you invest some time into learning

                            Androgynous

                              you dont really need to watch pro player perspectives. get better at basic stuff like last hitting in lane before you focus on the small things that pro players do.

                              having knowledge of things like farming/movement patterns doesn't really help if you're constantly getting 20 min bfuries on anti mage for example because you're only getting 4 creeps a minute so that you don't actually get to use that knowledge.

                              conversely a player who doesn't have that knowledge but can do basic things like get 60+ cs at 10 minutes with AM will still end up having better farm than someone who has knowledge of how to farm efficiently once he has items but can't last hit well just because the player that can get 60+ cs at 10 minutes will have his items on time

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                              TripleSteal-

                                60+ creeps a minute doesnt sound like a basic thing, even on am

                                Androgynous

                                  60+ cs at 10 minutes I meant

                                  Androgynous

                                    FailFish 60 cs per min FailFish

                                    KraToss

                                      I've been struggling a bit with AM on lane recently. I always aimed for 50+ cs at 10 minutes, and I was starting to hit that goal. Recently though I've been facing lanes with double ranged and I honestly have no idea what to do against that. I generally stay in XP range and salvage whatever last hits I can under the tower.

                                      Cancer

                                        U can only achieve 50+ cs on ur lane if ur ally understands the mechanics of the game and not last hit creeps and leave them all to u. That way u can get bfury in 10-15 mins. but if ur ally keeps hitting the creeps on ur lane then uve already lost that 50+ cs goal. Normal skill hard to achieve but doable if u beg ur lane partner to pls stop hitting the creeps and focus o harassing enemies. thats why some opt to jungle some opt to trashtalk coz they dont u understand, picking 5 carry heroes looks strong but lacks support better pick 5 support heroes and start ganking. That way u win game faster

                                        .GENGHIS.

                                          Watch match videos (replays) of aFeect where he doesn't die a single time.

                                          Androgynous

                                            ur not going to get a 10 min bfury without kills or getting it before finishing treads which is generally not a good idea anyway. plus there's a pretty big difference in a 5 minute timing window for any hero that saying 10-15 minutes isn't exactly helping someone figure out what their item timing should be.

                                            for example if you get 10 minute travels on tinker? that's fine. 15 minutes? you've probably already lost the game. or blink on batrider for example. 10 minutes is decent, 15 minutes is late.

                                            AM is one of the easier heroes to last hit with imo. his attack animation is pretty quick that even if an ally is contesting you, you'll get the last hit more often than not. if an ally is contesting you, that's no reasaon to give up trying to get the most cs that you can. it's not impossible to get high amounts of cs even if an ally is contesting you. having a defeatist mentality doesn't help you improve.

                                            advice for AM specifically, stop buying MKBs. it's not good on this hero. there's no way it should be your 6th most purchased item, because you are not going to have enemies building solar crest and butterfly in every game. MKB is only a good damage item when you are against miss chance or evasion. the only thing that your illusions get is the true strike. so that means an AM illusion with MKB does the same amount of damage as an AM illusion without MKB, if the enemy does not have evasion.

                                            yes your hero gains the MKB damage, but there are other items with a similar cost that will give you more damage, such as butterfly, which also benefits illusions and also significantly increases survivability, or abyssal blade which gives more damage than MKB, and a much better disable for higher solo kill potential.

                                            if you're in a lane that you're expecting heavy harassment, you should have started with extra regen from looking at their team composition and expecting what the lane matchup will be. stout, 2 tangos and a salve is what I would get if I'm expecting a lot of harassment, and then I would rush a poor mans shield as my first item, so that I can stay in lane as long as possible.

                                            most games my starting items consist of either stout and 3 sets of regen (2 tangos, 1 salve) or stout and 2 sets of regen (2 tangos or 1 tango and 1 salve), and with the 175 remaining gold I will either start with slipper of agility (150g) for poor mans shield rush, or save gold for a fast quelling blade (200g) if I think the lane matchup is easy (or uncontested) and I just want to ensure I get 70+ cs at 10 mins.

                                            also getting a ring of regen or even upgrading to headdress can be worthwhile if you're in a contested lane and you're having a hard time saving up for ring of health. it's much safer to buy 2 slippers for poor mans (300) and ring of regen (350) or even complete the full headdress (600) and then go for ring of health afterwards than to try and save up and potentially get harassed out of lane before you reach 850g.

                                            it costs 50g more for headdress and poor mans compared to stout + ring of health, but the extra damage block and having 2-3 HP regen for a few minutes because you have the headdress but not enough for a ring of health does make a difference to how long you can stay in lane. plus poor mans and headdress is 5 agi. it's not much but it might mean some extra last hits you don't miss.

                                            you also want to get quelling blade not just for not missing last hits when you get the opportunity to last hit but also because if you're in a contested lane you are probably going to be farming neutrals when the lane is unsafe, and quelling blade makes a big difference to how fast you kill them. it's 40% damage for 200g. in the early game that's basically your claymore for battlefury but it's 1200g cheaper.

                                            also you want to get treads before battle fury almost all the time, the extra dps from treads lets you farm neutrals in the time when you're waiting for the enemy creeps to come into lane and fight your creeps or when the lane is unsafe to farm. the extra jungle creeps that you are able to kill because of the extra DPS from treads makes up for the 950 gold it costs to upgrade brown boots into them, plus it allows you to zone the enemy out of lane better and give more survivability. it's just a much safer build with very little downside, and you don't farm that much faster when you have battlefury and brown boots unless your team has multiple jungle stacks for you.

                                            also buy vlads more often. as AM your best chance of winning is when you get 6 slotted asap when the enemy is 2-3 items behind. vlads helps with that because it gives you HP sustain and is a low cost item but it scales because of lifesteal. bfury is not enough sustain for tanking neutral creeps especially ancients, and the extra mana regen helps with blink spam. so if you can stay on the map, you can spend more time farming instead of healing in fountain.

                                            also it lets you split push much better which is what you'll be doing for most of the first 20 minutes of the game before you get your manta. an AM with bfury and vlads applies more map pressure than an AM with bfury and yasha because he never has to go back to base and the vlads aura helps with pushing, plus it lets you solo kill roshan.

                                            you're maybe slowing down your manta by 2-3 minutes but your next items after the manta are going to be quicker, and like I said you want to get 6 slotted asap. so even if your manta is slower, you'll still have a better shot at winning because your butterfly / abyssal / etc are going to be 5-7 minutes sooner which makes up for the slower manta timing.

                                            simple things like last hitting, starting items, item builds and skill builds are much easier to improve upon which is why I think you should focus on improving these first before you start thinking about what pros are doing. if you can get 70 cs every game as AM it doesn't matter if you don't know the most efficient movement patterns to maximise your farm. anyone who gets a 13 min bfury + treads on AM and knows how to attack creeps is going to farm fast no matter how bad they are.

                                            if you watch a pro player on AM you're mostly going to be watching them get perfect cs, and that doesn't teach you anything except "practice last hitting more".

                                            KraToss

                                              Thank you. That was really insightful Androgynous and I appreciate the time you put into writing that out. I'll have to keep practicing laning until I can reach the CS goals.

                                              I should add that there a lot of PAs at my current bracket so MKB tends to see a lot of use. Sort of just got used to buying it I suppose. In hindsight, there were a lot of opportunities today where an earlier Abyssal Blade would have been huge so not getting it really gimped me.

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                                              Piguera-

                                                I would say it's better to watch good MMR players replays than to watch pro games, because many things in pro games won't be applied in pub games. But pro games surely help in some aspects aswell.

                                                Try to focus on little things:
                                                First step -> Focusing on last hits and map awareness: Everytime you last hit a creep or two, check minimap. Are you safe? Do you know where the enemies are? Can you keep farming or should you retreat to your tower?
                                                You should note that you can attack a creep, then press S to cancel attack animation, keep repeating the process until you feel it's the exact moment to last hit it. Try it a few times. You can do the same on low HP allied creeps to deny them. This way you can even do some psychological jukes against enemies who try to deny or last hit a certain creep.

                                                Second step -> Item and skill builds: Never leave fountain with a certain spell learned. Use it according to your needs. Let's suppose you're playing Mirana. You went for 0 min runes with Sacred Arrow learned. Enemies came from behind, killed you, earning first blood. You had no Leap to use. Enemies got FB and the bounty rune. Sounds bad, isn't?
                                                Another example, but now about items:
                                                Example A: You're playing Anti-mage against an agressive lineup. Why don't you save money for Ring of Health, or even Ring of Regeneration if you really can't farm, so you can have a better sustain in lane? A poor man's shield would be good aswell, it's cheap, provides you some damage and blocks some of the damage inflicted to you. (Actually, in most of the cases you should buy PMS as anti-mage as soon as possible).
                                                Example B: You're playing Anti-mage with good supports, dominating the lane. Why don't you finish your power treads before a perseverance, so you can be more aggro?
                                                Example C: You're playing Anti-mage against heavy nukers. You can put 1 point on your third skill, which provides magical resistance. (Edit: Example C is not item related).

                                                These are some of laning stage builds. However you should always focus on macro. I mean, lane stage is short and there is much more after it ends. You should always think about what can you do to counter your enemies and help your allies.

                                                Example A: You're playing Nature's Prophet against Techies. Techies is annoying as fuck. Why don't you walk with your treants around the map, trying to detect possible land mines? Why don't you purchase Necronomicon 3, considering it has truesight?

                                                Example B: You're playing against heavy tanky enemies. Some armor debuff would work well. Medallion of Courage, Solar Crest, Desolator, Assault Cuirass, Vengeful Spirit's wave of terror, Dazzle's weave (his ult).

                                                Example C: You're playing as a carry against a lineup that has many lockdown spells (stuns, etc). As a carry, in most of cases you SHOULD buy a BKB. You don't want to die without even touching someone in a teamfight, am I right? So you will be able to rape their little supports if you activate your BKB on the right moment.
                                                Ps: In most of the cases it won't be needed to buy a BKB as Anti-mage, there are many more items you should buy before even thinking about a BKB. AM isn't the teamfighting type of hero. All you should do is push lanes/break towers and barracks when able, or then TP to a certain TF to take some frags. You're not the one who starts a TF. When a TF starts you should be farming, then it's up to you decide if you should push a lane while the TF goes on, or help your team if you feel they really need you. ALWAYS carry 1/2 teleport scrolls with you (That count for ANY hero you play - Always bring a TP).

                                                Example D: You're playing Venomancer and your team has many nukes, Zeus, Ogre Magi, etc, etc.. Why don't you build a Veil of Discord, so your team can benefit of it?

                                                Of course, don't forget about your Core items. Anti-mage without a battle fury won't be able to farm enought, it's a core, a really needed item to that hero. And you probably shouldn't build a Veil of Discord on it, even if your team has heavy nukes, just like on last example, considering you have no reliable nuke.

                                                Think about these things, start applying into your game. You should improve little by little, but that's the way we all improve. Step by step.

                                                Just a sidenote to remember, turn it into a mantra:

                                                Always check minimap.

                                                Always check minimap.

                                                Always check minimap.

                                                Always carry a TP.

                                                Always carry a TP.

                                                Always carry a TP.

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                                                Piguera-

                                                  Also, I agree about everything Androgynous said. He had a more complete view about things that were not mentioned in my post.

                                                  Piguera-

                                                    A last note, which maybe isn't obvious for some beginners: As anti-mage, you should blink through the map, farming everything you see, in order to improve your gold per minute. Blinking through the jungle camps and lane. Walking by feet will decrease your gpm. OFC you will need a Vlads to do so. It should be purchased right after battle fury.

                                                    If you see an empty lane with many creeps on it, why don't you spend your TP scroll (Did I mentioned that you should always carry a TP?) to farm them all? Afterall, you can buy other TP on a sideshop or bring it to you with courier.

                                                    Dennis

                                                      I'm currently at 3.5k and I'm raising my MMR daily ever since I calibrated so I dont know where I really will land eventually. 1st position really comes down to efficiency when it comes to farming, getting the maxed potential out of free farming lane/jungle but also almost as important is to be able to come back, find farm when it seems impossible to win.

                                                      Like if enemy got a spirit breaker or a good brood player against you. You get destroyed early perhaps but don't give up, truly just avoid death, getting free farm first 10 minutes don't mean anything, you can have 10 cs at 10 min and still come out with a 600gmp at the end of the game, just sit back, wait for them to think you cant recover and when they stop gank and focus their shit on other people you recover, and at that point efficiency is key. It wins games as a carry, don't matter how good you are at making cool plays if you don't have money to back it up.

                                                      Murranji

                                                        1 position has to be the absolute worst position atm. You will be aggressively dual laned every single time and get very little out of your lane. You will also have a useless support hero in the lane who does nothing but feed the enemy offlane.

                                                        If you want to win you either have to pick mid and replace the "mid only" players because as a safelaner you are practised playing 1v3 (2 enemies and your 'ally), while all the "mid only" players only have experience in playing 1v1 so are strictly worse than you.

                                                        Either that or you pick one of the 2 aggressive dual offlaners and mess over the enemy safelaner so much that your own carry who is being fucked over is less fucked over than the enemy carry - and trust me, if you don't pick the offlane role there is no way your team is going to fuck over the enemy carry as much as the enemy offlaners are fucking over you, because the enemy offlaners will be made up of people who traditionally went safelane carry but got sick and tired of facing aggressive dual offlanes each game and so went offlane instead and will be much more effective at shutting you down than your "offlane players" ie the morons who have the 2nd least idea about what to do in the game (after the supports) will be at shutting down the enemy safelane (which will now be composed of former 'offlaners' who have been forced to play safelane carry because the safelane players don't want to deal with the shit of the safelane.

                                                        TNL.Jolly_Hotdog

                                                          keep farming

                                                          cancer

                                                            4llow RTZ and rage hard. You'll get to 8K in no time. Kappa

                                                            cancer

                                                              Tho i don't really ahve a right to talk <30% winrate on AM BibleThump FeelsBadMan

                                                              Chadzpyre

                                                                get 2 supports, pick sven, aquire 900 gpm because its sven, and end the game 6 slotted by min 25.