General Discussion

General DiscussionThe Dogs of Shanghai

The Dogs of Shanghai in General Discussion
Murranji

    ***Unpicked Heroes (excluding those not available in Captains Mode):***

    Axe
    Huskar
    Meepo
    Sniper
    Storm Spirit
    Venomancer

    ***Analysis***

    Axe, Huskar, Sniper, Storm Spirit have all been nerfed in recent patches after either being a member of the OP/annoying to play against brigade. Meepo was nerfed even though he was never real popular. Venomancer has been buffed repeatedly quite recently but still isn't picked. The hero combines one of the lowest movespeeds and hp pools in the game with a lack of hard cc, no burst damage and pathetic defensive and zoning capabilities making him very shit against the current meta heroes such as Invoker, OD, Gyro, Furion, LD, Dark Seer, Tuskar, Zeus, Death Prophet, Void, Juggernaut, Sven etc.

    ***High Pickrate - Low Winrate***

    Ember Spirit - picked 39 times, won 33%

    As a melee hero Ember spirit is destroyed by almost every other popular mid ranged hero in the meta atm. Invoker, OD, Death Prophet and Zeus are all able to out harass and out cs Ember Spirit which forces him to be run as a safelaner. As a safelaner he can't stand up to and manfight in a similar way against other popular safelaners like Gyrocopter, Sven or Ursa.

    Oracle - picked 57 times, won 36.84%

    The hero is shit in pubs and has a lower winrate in competitive. Despite this every time I've explained how shit he is on r/learn dota 2 and told people he is shit I am downvoted and told "nah nah he's really strong it's just because people just don't what he does". Well guess what, even one and a half years after being introduced and even in a competitive setting where people presumeably know what the hero does and are practiced with their team mate playing him he still has a low a winrate as he does with random schmoes in a pub. Hero needs a serious proper buff, not more of this constant tinkering. Seriously, the hero has gone through like 3 iterations since he has been introduced and has sucked each time (apart from when he was first introduced, then he was pretty good cause of the ultimate).

    Dazzle - picked 46 times, won 36.96%

    Hero was nerfed in 6.86 precisely so that he would win less and therefore be picked less. On the way out for a while.

    Batrider - picked 50 times, won 38%

    Was deemed to be removed from competitve for a couple of years and is now trying to be moved back in. Still clearly suffering from all the nerfs though.

    ***Low pick rate - low winrate***

    Techies - picked once, lost.

    Good.

    Troll warlord - picked once, lost.

    Good.

    Bloodseeker - picked once, lost.

    Bloodseeker received one slight buff in 6.84 and yet was completely overshadowed by Leshrac at TI5. Then after that and despite barely appearing in competitve he was nerfed all the way down to the south pole just because some people in pubs bitched about being unable to beat the hero because they didn't pick his counters or just TP away when he ruptured them. Now he is back to unplayable and the one time someone accidentally did pick him they of course lost. Reminder that this hero currently has the absolute lowest winrate of any hero in 5k+ pubs.

    Necrophos - picked 7 times, 14% winrate

    Much weaker in competitive than in pubs which is why he keeps getting buffed even though he is already one of the most game winning heroes - much more so than bloodseeker was in 6.84. Meanwhile bloodseeker gets nerfed to oblivion after one fucking patch of being marginally good.

    Naga Siren - picked 6 times, 16% winrate

    Good, I don't think anyone wants a meta in which Naga Siren is a popular pick.

    PA - picked 5 times, 20% winrate.

    Low hp, crit which is lower and one third as reliable than level 7 juggernaut until she is level 16, only defensive skill is hard countered by 3 items and soft countered by 1, no farming capability unless she itemises extremely greedy, unreliable escape, single target damage etc etc etc.

    Skywrath Mage - picked 9 times, 22% winrate

    Hero combines the squishiest lowest hp and armour in the game with no hard cc and a lot of post TI4 nerfs. Has had some recent buffs to concussive shot as if that actually fucking matters.

    Luna - picked 4 times, 25% winrate

    Keeps getting her Aghs sceptre upgrade useless buffs rather than something else which might actually help her be relevant. What a joke.

    Centaur Warrunner - picked 3 times, 33% winrate

    When do you ever see a centaur picked and say "oh shit they got a centraur warrunner!", exactly, never.

    Terrorblade - picked 18 times, 38.89% winrate.

    Running around on 700 hp when a hero like Zeus has been buffed with aether lens+veil, OD destroys his illusions and all mana, Invoker destroys him in a single sunstrike/metoer/defeaning blast combo, and Icefrog thinks he is now in a good position, roflmao.

    Тази тема била редактирана
    Fee Too Pee

      Huskar oracle comp pls :( . Btw so bored with meta this patch. Right click od , late game spectre literally every game. Oh and invoker

      TNL.Jolly_Hotdog

        saddened that techies lost

        Chaoshype

          Techies won with Secret as far as I remember

          Von Darkmoor

            Bloodseeker is fine the way he is you just need to think only viable change could be a lower animation on his aoe nuke but that would make him OP again.

            Terrorblade not sure
            Luna buff.
            Bat buff.

            Troll a small small small buff.

            Veno most definently buff

            Naga is fine perhaps a slight increase in Base attackdamage.

            Techie revert the nerf and fine.

            Pa need something perhaps remove the stoff dager or change it back to the way it use to be and increase hp/Base dmg

            Nerf Harb.

            Nerf Ursa actually just revert him and increase his slow/nuke aoe now his just riducilus.

            Invoker hmm not sure good invo and his normal very good invo and his invincible bad invo and his nuffin perhaps just nerf alacrity and summon and remove refresher from working on him.

            Huskar Increase strr gain

            Axe increas taut duration and he could be good to go

            Sniper make shrapnell dmg towers again and make it give vision in like 100-200 aoe instead of the 500-600 it is now or perhaps just make the shrapnell minibash every sec in its aoe.

            arin

              high skill analysis ayy lmao

              arin

                sadly icefrog listens to morons like you

                SirSwirll

                  ^ thinks he is good!

                  Murranji is still right

                  TNL.Jolly_Hotdog

                    who knows?

                    Oldman

                      I would like too see a slight buff to TB and meepo. Tb can be a viable last pick in some mid game pushing scenarios i dont know.

                      Pale Mannie

                        Revert the meepo nerfs

                        Dire Wolf

                          well you have to keep in mind statistics from those tournaments will be slanted slightly cus teams favor certain heroes and so the heroes the better teams prefer will come out looking better especially in group stages.

                          I don't see a 40% win rate as a huge abberation. But it's clear why ember and naga suffer, it's cus the pace of the game, it is not a farm meta anymore, and those guys aren't big factors until late game.

                          Oracle it's easy to see why he loses so much cus heroes like sven and ursa were so popular and he's shit vs them. You need supports who can gank and crowd control and oracle can't do either very well. He has that stop but it's not that great still. I think that also explains dazzle, these carries just wait out the death protection and aren't that affected by poison touch, group heal etc.

                          Sniper storm and troll are all shit right now and everyone knows it.

                          PA needs a rebalance. Cus she's ridiculously strong early with that dodge but so shitty onces it's countered. And too random. Very easy fixes are to change her proc chance on crit to 25% and adjust the dmg down so it's overall same dmg increase, then reduce her dodge chance but have that skill also add armor per level like 5/6/7/8. She still has physical resistance but is less of a creep once mkbs are bought. Silver edge still fucks her though but it fucks all carries with passives so it is what it is.

                          Literally all TB needs is like 100 more base hp. He is so freakin close to be good right now.

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                          Murranji

                            Oracle shit vs Ursa and Sven? Oracle has a 4.5 second disarm on a 7 second cooldown, essentially granting the equivalent of a heaven's halberd available for almost 66% of the time. BKB has a 80-50 second cooldown.

                            The weakness or Oracle is - his current ultimate is basically a marginally longer shallow grave+abaddon shield on a longer cooldown. Ie his "ultimate ability" is two normal abilities combined with a longer cooldown.

                            His primary nuke can only be used once every 6 seconds because otherwise it will end up healing the enemy more than it damages them.

                            His magic immunity/disarm only lasts for the time that it takes to cast two of his nuke/heals, and that's if you are using a script to autocast it off cooldown. For normal human players they are only going to be able to cast the magic immunity and then heal once before the duration ends and the nuke/heal is off cooldown.

                            His root/purge deals very little damage and is a poor form of lockdown and is too expensive to cast often in the early game even against spells which need to be purged like ion shell.

                            All in all all of his spells are either weak, have little impact, or have so many draw backs that it's not even worth casting them. You'd be better off just skilling stats.

                            SirSwirll

                              You can purge the nuke heal off heros by using the disarm thingo afterwards

                              ФАНТОМ РИКИ!!!!

                                How about Riki, you never mentioned Riki???

                                Murranji

                                  Riki isn't in captains mode so he was unable to be picked.

                                  Dire Wolf

                                    I guess I don't get his nuke, what do you mean it heals more if you spam it? The heals stack more?

                                    Here's what I mean, oracle not picked enough to have a huge sample, this is the one game I watched in its entirety.

                                    http://www.dotabuff.com/matches/2198057551

                                    It's col enchantress, od, wisp, sven, oracle vs eg dark seer, qop, ursa, cm and earth spirit. Not hard to call the winner before the game even begins, one team has all the control heroes, the other doesn't have jack shit, is really relying heavily on od + sven just wiping the floor with people.

                                    Ursa just ran a train on people in this game, oracle has a disarm? Really? Cus I didn't even notice it in the game, that's how ineffective it was. A hard stun is what shuts ursa down especially since pros tend to delay bkb on ursa, I think rtz went phase, mask, blink, diffusal before bkb, don't remember exactly. And then beyond that they had nothing to control qop. You can't really pick a non controller offlane like enchantress and a non controller support vs heroes like that, it was a shit draft overall.

                                    But it really just hammers home, what does oracle do? His cc is weak, his dmg is weak, his ult is kind of annoying but that's about it. Weak hero.