General DiscussionIs it just me or does diffusal seem super strong on most carries?

Every agi shd get diffusal imo

It was always good on agi heroes but i still think its stupid on AM

The item just does and gives too much.

For just north of 3k gold you get a lot in just one item. 50 Mana burned per hit is super high, goddamn AM burns 64 which is not much higher. Purge can be used for chasing and also for debuff. It is also the only direct counter (in terms of items) to ghost scepter/shroud. Like ghost form is such a big ability in the game and DB just counters it. It gives damage to agi and int heroes, gives armor also. It is super easy to build (not like radiance or something like that), components are cheap. Works with illusions.

The only nerf that item received is that it can't be used on self/allies. And honestly that's not that big of a deal, it's a decent nerf but item is just too good overall. Other "bad thing" about the item is that it's charge based, but if used wisely and with ability to refresh them, charges are enough. 2s cooldown is good nerf comparing to no cooldown, but still that is low CD. Even Windrunner can use DB, she ults you and your mana is just gone in an instant.

I think the item is broken overall, it just does more than items that are in terms of cost tier above. Almost seems like you can't go wrong if you build it, which is ridiculous.

The way miracle uses it is like a Super cheap alternative to abyssal that can be used multiple times in a fight rather than the usual one. It alllows him to fight a lot. Provides a lot of agi for cheap price.

It's pronounced "difushal".

Does difushal mana burn stack with am mana break? I remember it didn't.

it iz

diffusal doesnt stack with am mana break. didn't watch miracle game but most likely he wants the other effects not the mana burn one on top.

50 mana per hit is a stupid amount yeah. And they also buffed the agi it gives from 20 to 25. You can get insane value and utility for just 3150 gold.

it iz

No, its not.

it does give 65 dmg per hit at level 1 which is the same as butter which is rather ridiculous

Diffusal is indeed too strong, but necessary considering how weak (most) carry are.

This item should be nerfed, aswell as most utility item, like glimmer, ghost, medaillon, solar, halberd...

Hell that fucking diffusal is so strong it's better than armlet on n'aix

consider the fact that it's damage cannot crit (making it a slightly worse dps item on like every single crit using carry), and it's still worse than butterfly as butter also gives you extra attack speed.

and it's illusion damage has also been nerfed (unlike am's mana burn) which makes me thinkthat maybe actually butterfly is also better for illusion heroes coz of the attack speed given.

also obviously the item has charges, you can use it only 16 times in the entire game, so if the game goes ultra late you have to sell it. it doesn't sound like much but it reduces the item's long term value by a lot, and it being REALLY strong on certain chase-based heroes while you can use the charges only seems balanced.

????????

comparing a 3150(3800) gold item to a 5525 gold item .....

i don't know how jugg kills anyone anymore without it since the nerf on omnislash range. it's pretty core on that hero.

it's also a good alternative first item for spec. a lot of spec players spend too long waiting for rad (like >25 mins) and game is over by then.

yea im not taking evasion or movement speed into account when i'm comparing them

give daedalus a melee range active purge with no slow and 25 second cooldown

i wish daedalus was viable on more than 3 heroes in the entire game that item is so cool

problem with daedulus is half the time you need truestrike and don't have slots for both and the other half bloodthorn is better cus you need a silence. And making your team crit as well makes bloodthorn do more dmg overall than just daedulus on yourself.

3 heroes?
i can think of only 2
sf
sniper

also diffusal is very good, its only balanced around the fact that its slot ineffecient, a lot of carries dont want an entire slot for that item, especially when they get close to 6 slotted
i think the agi/manaburn shud be nerfed but it gets more charges, its agi is too cost effecient, its super good dps early game.

bloodthorns just a high impact item imo. great damage and can be used for pickoffs or defensively if ur good wheras crit has the same dps without the silence or ias and has the sole benefit of working through bkb and purges

the main problem with crit imo is that its both expensive(with a shitty buildup to boot) and entirely one-dimensional, pretty much all the other 5k gold items enable u to tons of stuff, have good buildups, afre flexible and can completely change the way the game is played
crit just give u more dmg that doesnt even work against buildings

Who else other than sf and sniper and sven even buys it?

So, now that we have reached a consensus that Diffusal is too strong, what do you guys think would be the best way to nerf it? Some tweak to its numbers, like less mana burnt per hit, longer cd for purge or less charges? Or a Silver Edge treatment to significantly increase the cost of its recipe? Or maybe even change its build-up entirely?

Sven mostly goes orchid now I'm pretty sure, I haven't seen sf buy daedulus in a while. Sniper builds it only cus his range is so damn long he out ranges the active on bloodthorn.

Crit is actually really, really good. Crystalis increases attack dmg by an average of 15% and that includes white dmg. So if you have around 150 dmg when you get it it's like adding another 22.5, that makes the whole item ~55 dmg for around 2k gold. I love a quick crystalis on troll. But I never finish the upgrade cus bt is almost always better cus the control with silence, crit for your team and extra 30% dmg is so much better than daedulus. And it costs a lot more to compensate but both are end game items where slots matter as much or more than gold at that point.

The demon edge buildup on daedulus is what sucks so bad. Maybe they should make demon edge available in regular shop. That might make more people buy it. Or make the buildup easier like two broadswords and then reduce the recipe cost. No one likes recipes. Or what about two broadswords and two elvenskins? Idk, just anything to remove the recipe.

Deadalus is bad because it's one-dimensional, it doesn't give any utility or even any defensive purpose like Skadi, AC, Heart or Butterfly. Also it's RNG, crit doesn't work on buildings (it's horrible for sieging hg, which is the most important thing right now) and if you really want damage, just pick the damage talents and buy defensive items instead.

how abt this
instead of demon edge and recipe it builds out of desolator
every hit applies the base -7 armor
and when it crits it also applies extra -7 armor, for total of -14 armor, kinda like old ck crit
the cost wud also be increased by 300 gold
the crit percentage itself, or even the armor itself can be adjusted
this is mostly conceptual
maybe it also crits on buildings for 1/3 effectiveness
Thoughts?

Diffu on AM only to pop linkens

And out of nowhere