Dota is an extremely complex game, which provides a lot of space for theorycrafting. The interactions between spells are countless, and it is sometimes easy to get tricked into overthinking and overcomplicating, especially during the drafting stage. Elder Titan is among the biggest victims when it comes to these mistakes—drafts with the hero are generally a lot more elaborate and harder to utilize effectively.
It is, however, generally not the case—the perfect teamfights are rare in Dota and overcomplicating the lineups for their sake is not a safe bet. The preferable option would be to focus on the individual strengths of the heroes and have several “micro-synergies”. But where does it leave Elder Titan, the combo-master? Surprisingly, it leaves him in a very good spot, especially in the current patch.
The hero has an impressive win rate across all skill brackets. In <2k games his win rate is at an impressive 60%, while in other brackets it is around a comfortable 55%. This largely can be attributed to his extremely low pick rate. It barely reaches 3%, indicating that for the most part the hero is only played by players who know the hero well and know in what games he can bring the most utility.
The hero is predominantly played as either an offlaner or a support in the safe lane. The win rate discrepancy between these two roles is minimal, despite differences in the playstyles.
There is currently no “go-to” skillbuild for the hero, since he hasn’t been played enough in the professional scene since the introduction of 6.87. However, most professionals in the EPICENTER have started prioritizing Echo Stomp, with either two points in Astral Spirit or one point in the spirit and one point into Natural Order by level 7. The aura is generally maxed out second.
It is a rather drastic change from the previous offlane build, which prioritized Astral Spirit and Natural Order. The change is a result of a strong damage buff to Echo Stomp, which finally put it on par with most other nukes in the game. This change has also resulted in the hero becoming a lot more independent—he no longer needs set up from his team, since he can set up most fights himself.
Since the hero is now primarily played as a support, extra levels into Astral Spirit are generally wasted—apart from minimal increase in damage, the only extra benefit is the higher Attack Damage bonus on the Spirit’s return. With Echo Stomp becoming a priority skill and Natural Order being as good as it has always been, there are no skill points left for the Spirit, especially in the earlier stages of the game.
The item build for the hero is pretty straightforward in most games. It generally involves a variety of support items, which do change from game to game, but ultimately come from the same pool of relatively cheap utility gear.
Eul's Scepter of Divinity is one of the highest utility items in the game, but it is especially good on Elder Titan since it can allow for easy, guaranteed Echo Stomp set-ups.
Force Staff is self-explanatory—it is a staple support item which works well against almost all melee cores and countering single-target lockdown spells.
The “aura” items, such as Vladmir's Offering, Crimson Guard, Pipe of Insight and even Shiva's Guard are also nice additions to any lineup. Shiva’s Guard, however, is outclassed by Lotus Orb in certain scenarios.
Due to his inability to secure reliable farm, especially in the support role, it is rare for the hero to build Mekansm, since it will unlikely be built in a timely manner and its impact might be irrelevant.
The more aggressive approach to building Elder Titan might involve Veil of Discord. It fully stacks with the Natural Order aura and combined they put most heroes at +24% magic damage taken.
Other potential items for consideration, especially in the very late game, are Silver Edge and Heaven's Halberd. The former is only good if there are no natural carriers of the item on the team, and the enemy has a hero with a really strong passive, while the latter is exceptional at dealing with strong, ranged carries.
The usual Medallion of Courage and Solar Crest are decent alternatives as well. The minus armor on these items also fully stacks with the aura.
Echo stomp does two instances of damage—Magical and Physical. Despite having a physical component, however, it will not sleep or deal damage to the magic immune targets.
When the Astral Spirit is on the field, Echo Stomp will deal the Magical Damage around the spirit and Physical Damage around the hero himself.
Units put to sleep will wake up only after taking damage from hero sources and their summons. They can be freely attacked by neutrals, lane creeps and towers without waking up. In certain scenarios it can be a huge advantage and can even turn around a tower dive gank from the enemy. Due to its nature, it is generally better to avoid playing Elder Titan in lineups which have heroes with Radiance as one of their core items. Being able to kill the enemies one-by-one, as opposed to fighting them all at the same time is one of the selling points of the hero. Note, however, that HP removal (e.g. Heartstopper Aura) is not considered damage and will not wake up the enemies.
The interactions between Astral Spirit and Echo Stomp have already been discussed, however, there are a couple of thing worth noting.
The Spirit is not automatically bound to “all other units” button. As such, he should be set into a separate control group. This control group persists on any other spirits summoned not only during the given game, but in all other games played on the hero as well.
The damage bonus he provides in the early stages is massive—while the hero is rarely played in the offlane, he can still punish early aggression and deal a lot of damage from the auto-attacks alone.
Finally, during his return phase, Echo Stomp can still be cast, forcing the Spirit to stop and begin channeling the spell.
Natural Order is a skill with probably the highest amount of misconceptions surrounding it. The way it works with Magic Resistance is not straightforward. It focuses on the portion that is not resisted and amplifies it instead. So, on a typical hero with 25% Magic Resistance, it will take the remaining 75% of magic damage dealt and multiply it by a factor of 1.33 at level 4 of the ability. The net result is close to 0.
For the same reason, it fully stacks with other sources of magic damage amplification— Veil of Discord, Ethereal Blade, Ice Vortex etc.
When it comes to the Armor reduction, it only takes away the Base (white) armor and has no effect on the Bonus (green) one. Base armor is the starting armor of the hero and all the armor the hero receives from the Agility attribute. Bonus armor comes from Armor items and hero/neutral skills (e.g. [missing skill: dragon-knight-dragon-blood-5228], [missing skill: lich-ice-armor-5135]).
As such, it works rather poorly in terms of Armor reduction on Strength heroes, since most of their armor is going to be Bonus (green). However, it works exceptionally well against Agility cores, which generally relies on armor from stats.
Similar to Echo Stomp, this ability deals half of its damage as magical and the other half as physical. Unlike Echo Stomp, it does go through Spell Immunity, applying the slow effect as well as dragging the enemy heroes to the center of the split (and disarming if cast with Aghanim's Scepter). However, only the physical damage portion is dealt, while the magical half of the damage is effectively blocked.
On a hero under the effects of Natural Order, with no bonus armor and no extra sources of Magic Resistance, the ability can deal a massive amount of damage. Despite its rather long creation time, it has high chance of hitting the enemies, since its AoE is deceptively massive even in terms of width.
Except for his ultimate, Elder Titan has no cast backswing on any of his abilities, so it is possible to shift-queue his casts for less delay. For example, it only takes 2 seconds from the initial cast of Astral Spirit into Echo Stomp for the enemies to be put to sleep, and an extra 3.14 seconds for the Earth Splitter to take effect. Catching 2-3 targets is possible in almost in any scenario, as long as your teammates understand the Sleep mechanics.
The hero is far from being overpowered, however there is still some advice which is generally good to follow when playing against Elder Titan. His aura has a strong effect on the flow of the teamfight regardless of your lineup and as such he can be considered a priority target, especially when playing against tanky heroes. Tanky heroes generally have much lower DPS than their more fragile counterparts and Elder Titan greatly compensates for this lack of damage.
Additionally, having mobility items is almost a must on any support. Since there is no way to wake up allies (with the exception of specific cases e.g. Abaddon), getting them out of the harms way is extremely important. Starting a fight slowed and with 50% HP remaining is an uphill battle not many heroes can win.
During the drafting stage, it is possible to exploit the greediness of the hero—Elder Titan needs levels to become effective and not allowing him to get to this point is a valid option. He is a weak offlaner and doesn't contribute much as a safe lane support either. That said, he does greatly facilitate the lane outpush and it is generally better to play safe against him once your team has an advantage. In highground choke-points the hero truly shines.
Elder Titan suffers from two big problems: not many people fully understand how the hero works, and the ones that do try to overcomplicate the hero. The truth is the hero is rather straightforward—his abilities chain well, especially since he has no backswing, and they bring a lot of utility and damage to the table.
While he is not exactly the best fit against Strength cores, due to his aura only reducing the Base armor, he still amplifies the damage of his team by a substantial enough amount to deserve a pick in many situations. Moreover, Magic Resistance reduction is a mechanic that should not be underrated—there is a reason Veil of Discord is currently such a popular item.
Granted, the hero is not the most exciting to play. espite having a huge AoE ultimate and strong crowd control, he does feel clunky, but in the right hands and at the right time, his potential is comparable, if not superior, to most other popular supports.
first. newbz
second :(
another special kid saying first...
4th?
5th 6th 7th
Elder Titan, Earthshaker, enigma, Magnus. these hereos make the game balance/or as the blog says gives natural order
who?
ah im happy to be one of those 3% that can play the hero, when he first came out i immediatly loved the hero it was hard to start playing him but when i started getting results with him i got really happy.
I played noticed the high winrate of the hero just yesterday... I got a reshresher in the offlane for the lawls :v
was nice to read this article.
pretty sure dragon blood actually increases dk`s base armor.
Kinda surprised and a little depressed to see this big guy takes a backline support role in pro meta. The addition of echo sabre, along with those buffs on blademail, armlet, and silver blade, make him such a hard-hitter.
my alltime favorite hero!
Elder Titan should be played what he sounds like - Titans are all powerful and god-like
A bunch of stupid kids saying 1st, 2nd and 3rd again. Ow well...Anyway. Elder Titan is a cool hero against agi carries I think he is very strong.
Would you recommend a Hand of Midas for the quick levels?
"another special kid saying first..."
You mean autistic.
Wasn't there a post somewhere saying that Elder Titan's biggest counter is his teammates? That is the reason I don't play him.
You sleep the enemy for a combo but NO, your team's Zeus has to cast Arc Lightning.......
Echo Sabre synergies well with his 2nd skill.
I strongly, STRONGLY question the common supposition that his win rate is so good because he's picked so little, thus only played by specialists. If you look at the other least picked 10 or 15 or 25 heroes, very few heroes even have positive win rates- in fact, that's generally where the most abysmal win rates are found. In the last month, in the least 12 picked heroes, not only does ET have the only win rate over 48%, but he is one of only 3 heroes that even reaches over 45%. In the least 25 played heroes, he is one of only 3 with a positive win rate at all. His current 55% in the last month sticks out like a sore dick.
Wouldn't some of these other heroes experience the same effect if this were true? Furthermore, I would consider other heroes in this range, such as Chen, Visage, Meepo, Broodmother, and LD far more 'specialist' heroes than ET. But the win rates for all these heroes are not only outstanding like ET, but in fact quite awful. The... I'll dub it the 'specialist win rate inflation theory,' appears to be quite incorrect. We see the exact opposite results in the data, in that least picked heroes are usually the biggest losers.
No, I suspect that ET wins so much just because he is really that good. And although he's soared to new heights since the last patch, he's been the one outstanding hero among the least picked for a very, very long time. Sometimes you see Beastmaster or Warlock or Treant dip really low in the pick rates too, but over a long period of time ET has been one of the very few winners amongst the least picked.
EZ REFRESHER EZ RAMPAGE
et offlaner = EEEZ free farm carry ULTRA EEEZ free kills; et supp = EEEZ to harass the enemy carry, i see no reason to pick him, the hero needs very special conditions to work, much like shadow demon, i think his high win rate must be atributed to his low pick rate
I disagree with Titan being a support / utility. Ive played lots of titan games and have noticed that the support role leaves some potential in titan.
His Spirit greatly gives additional damage when it hits several units and returns to titan.
A Semi-Carry role would fit better
Tried picking him in a match noting that he had a high winrate.
My safelane Gyro+shadow demon fed a double kill the the solo offlane axe 2 minutes in while the offlane weaver (wtf?) with me did nothing to harass back against the witch doctor safelane support (so WD would just get off auto attacks while weaver would stand there tanking them and then running. I obviously couldn't do anything, had to rotate top to try and help stop them axe, enemy safelane gets lots of farm, enemy jungle nature's prophet gets lots of free farm, Axe gets a tonne of farm, our gyro is running around with fucking phase aquila and drums at 30 minutes.
Easy fucking gg. Pretty shit hero, he needs his team to win the early game or he's fucked, and given the team mates you will usually get paired with you will always be losing the early game.
Not a specialist hero, you could Master him in 10 games, the specialist heros have a shit winrate because noobs go watch their montages and get high on hormones and try them without any knowledge of them, examples include Meepo, invoker, Chen etc. ET isn't a specialist hero at all when compared to the above.
Although the thing is witht he above mentioned specialist heros, the specialists barely lose.
Looks like some people are angry I commented first. "Special kids" insult other people in the comment box of dotabuff... big guys, big tough guys. :p
As one one the most dedicated ET player i appreciate the focus on that hero.
the joy of a 5 men stomp is as good as a blackhole
Surprised there was no mention of Aether Lens. The extra cast range on your spirit and ulti lets you play way safer as well as a nice damage increase on top of your natural order.
no way
I miss the old symmetrical spirit.
@KawaiiSocks first of all, I beg of you to simplify your English writing, a problem recurring from your previous articles. There is absolutely no need for overly complicated sentences or choices of words to make your point come through! In some cases, it doesn't even make sense. For example: "It is, however, generally not the case—the perfect teamfights are rare in Dota..." Not the case, in what? In the safe bet? Not the case in rare, perfect teamfights? Reread your sentences, and try not to use sentences you might not know how to use.
Also, you abused too much stripes '-', whereas it makes more sense and more comfortable to read if you use colons, ':' in your sentences.
I gave criticism in the way you write because I take deep interest in the topics that you usually discussed, and understand that you may not be a native English speaker. Hopefully you can improve it some more as it also regards to the brand image of DotaBuff as a whole. Oh and, get an editor and credit them in the article, if you haven't! Will help you review.
With that aside, Elder Titan was always a mysterious hero for me to grasp and to know how to use. Having an article explaining how he works is simply great, and by having more understanding will hopefully lead more players (including me!) to try him out. I'm not particularly an expert in the game so I won't argue much about the content of the article.
Pretty good against Agility carries like Slark and Morphling.
indeed, but, morphling is in most of cases, a normal carry (much gold, he is good, low gold, he is shit) not a 3 stars carry as he is supused to be (like troll with s&y and bkb, or PA with basher and bkb, or even CK with armlet and drums..). I mean, there is no reason for pick et in counter of morphling IMO
Played this hero for less than 20 games and I was Snowballing! Don't know if i played it right but my win ratio on it is 74%
This hero is a combination hero. It combos extremely well with Void, Magnus, Earthshaker, Jakiro, Enigma...
A successful utilization of ultis of these heroes can destroy the enemy team in less than 10 seconds! :)
Watch ?
Играю на нём очень силён отвечаю
team pls dont hit them while ulty is under ty
I Like Elder Titan
Elder titan has very high dmg output potential if he has used correctly by player since the ultra reduce health by percent than number.
You know, it would be nice if everyone gets how you SHOULDN'T EVER HIT sleeping enemies BEFORE the ult pops or before the duration runs out. Would be really nice.