General DiscussionThoughts on Patchnotes

no ancients on tinker is fine imo. it made his radiant side much stronger because he has the triple camps in the regular jungle on top of ancients.

plus if he did the ancients then his team still has access to jungle. with the change if he farms the regular jungle he's taking more resources from his team.

vaccuum cd change is a joke because it's cd keeps getting nerfed.

all pick rework means that it's harder to dodge i believe, because someone may end up on your team, and he may not. if one person doesn't pick, the rest of the team who hasn't picked is also punished, but that's because they are also not picking when they have the opportunity to.

it also forces people to pick instead of how it normally is where one person will pick first then people counter each other, or just dont pick at all until 0:00

pa blur is much stronger, as you no longer can check were she is on the map, without looking at the lane (free road near ward :p)

crimsom wtf, we ned a meckasm nerf, and you had this shit on top of it... (pretty op on huskar though)

My 2 biggest concern:
Why the hell did they nerfed tuskar SOOOO hard ?

Why the hell did they changed damage type ???
At least removing universal to pur + pierce magic immune, that's fine, that was exactly that.
But composite ??? Techies land mine no longer clean creep
We have a retarded +40% damage on tower for edict (which give an increase of 5% damage on tower, if they balanced the new damage around heroes)
Hp removal? Even if they did wrote "we are fucking idiot that don't know what is hp removal so we remove it" they wouldn't be more clear than with what they wrote.

No wonder we had so many bug with hp removal

And now they will make "exception", or change the behaviour of spell such as venge's cry (toward dagger).
The nerf of dagger is negligeable ofc.

(btw, now agah is pretty strong on od)

^ But they did nerf Mek. Somewhat.

Bottle from 600 (few patches ago) to 700... Tp scrolls and boots nice change.

Pa isnt useless, imo its kinda better because you cant tell if she is missing or not unless you check the lanes (which takes more time)

I dont think AP change has anything to do with dodges, imo its going to be like RD now but the pool isnt limited and its 1 by 1 person picking

Timber agha going to be fun, good as counter pushing

PA's blur is basically a role change. It's basically a free smoke of deceit for her, but may sacrifice her ability to juke players who spend a lot of their time looking at the map.

Mek is pretty unusable on STR heroes like Bristle and Centaur now, as the mana cost is way too much I'd imagine.

And PAs blur is WAYS stronger now, OP.

While it is a significant buff, I don't think it's that large. That buff clearly benefits mid-game PAs who go mid and play the role of a ganker, and if they were smart, they were already buying smoke of deceit to basically do what the new blur does now, this is more of a money saving buff then anything I feel.

spells that did HP removal damage are changed now
hp removal is now only used for spells that have HP costs e.g. huskar W and R, phoenix Q+W+E, soul ring and armlet

thats basically it

the nerf to land mines clearing creep waves means it's still good for killing heroes and that is probably it's intended use, it nerfs his farm capability / wave clear as mid

the edict damage is basically the same as it is now. the new damage values are the old ones x0.72
0.72 x 1.4 = 1.00800
meaning edict does 0.8% more damage to towers than it did previously, which is nothing.

because it is not reduced by 25% magic resistance anymore that is basically a 33% damage increase (25% reduction = x0.75 damage multiplier = 3/4 damage multiplier. therefore removing the damage reduction increases edict's damage by the inverse which is 4/3 which is 1.3(3)x).

0.72 x 1.3(3) = 0.96 meaning edict now does 4% less damage than it did to heroes previously

"but may sacrifice her ability to juke players who spend a lot of their time looking at the map."

lol if you're trying to chase a pa you look at what's on your screen to see where she went, since when do you look at the map which offers less info

useless change to dagger and bottle

[IMG]http://i.imgur.com/ioBsgqQ.png[/IMG]

Don't know what you guys are trolling about.

The damage type of mines are changes to Phyiscal, thus it still does damage.

I think the main purpose of the bottle change is to make stupid people not wait in base to get bottle level one in lower brackets, and nerf Vroksgodstack IO lvl 1 bottle.

it seems like its the same nerf to midas.

after the passive gold gain buff, midas gets easier to build. then it's gold cost gets nerfed to cancel it out

same with blink and bottle

@dd

we're not saying they don't do damage

the old damage meant it could 1 shot creep waves if you hit them with 1 attack each. now you have to weaken the creeps further to kill them, which is basically nerfing techies mid wave clear as it takes him much longer to butter up the creeps so that the mines can 1 shot them

Town Portal Scroll

Gold cost reduced from 135 to 100

damn nice but i betsit for bloodseeker and zeus

Haha i thought blur was only giving evasion with no heroes around sorry my b

The evasion aspect is always active, even with the old blur, when no heroes were around, you still had the evasion.

bloodseeker buff makes him a better jungler cos now his jungle ability also weakens creeps

so more idiots will jungle him thinking he's good cos he got buffed. but also pubs are gonna be less gimped by having a slow as fuck jungle bs i guess.

I thint the ET aghas is quite good too! But this change to bs seems really confusing.

old / current bs
Q - increases damage dealt + single target silence, 80 mana
W - healing for killing, 0 mana
E - thirst change isnt confusing
R - nuke damage and damage for moving, 150/200/250 mana

new bs
Q - increases damage dealt + increases damage taken + healing for killing, 0 mana
W - aoe nuke damage and aoe silence, 100 mana
E - thirst is still thirst
R - damage for moving, mana cost is the same

so when he goes for kills his mana usage is going to be basically unchanged
when he is farming, his ability that heals him also increases damage dealt, allowing him to farm faster by spamming it because it costs 0 mana
his silence is an aoe making him better in teamfights and can probably be used to farm too

you can still heal yourself by killing creeps by putting bloodrage on yourself, but because it amplifies damage taken, you can't just sit mid with a poor mans shield and last hit while not giving a fuck about harass anymore.

also with it having a low cooldown you'll have to keep casting it, but it's cast animation has been buffed to 0.2 seconds so it's not too bad.

the new ability that silences has a pretty long cooldown so you can't perma silence anyone anymore

It nerfs him mid super hard. That silence was what allowed him to win a lot of mid matchups and the healing allowed him to not give a crap about harassment and still last hit. He's going to be a shitty mid now. But on the flip side I think he will be a better carry, able to farm a little better and having some real team fight utility. But who knows? Being able to wipe a team cus of all the healing was strong before, that's totally gone now. But again, he can buff his team with bloodrage and have like a sven heal or something.

did you even read the patch notes

This is more like dota 3. Almost everything has been changed.

^Almost everything?

Changes to botlane and roshan is the changes, between the every so hero and general game changes.

How come that change a game to a "different" game?
Jeez

Anyone noticed the tree scepter change? Will we start to see trees mid? Also riki will be really strong vs single targets! 5 blink strikes without cooldown!

wow much amaze! 8 sec fade on riki

me scared

riki is really bad now, they tought it'll buff him but in reality hes rly rly bad.
+its still riki

Love the Dark Seer change, <3 IceFrog!!!

@Matrice
Tuskar is actually buffed is better at skirmishes and chasing. His shards got waaaaaaaaaaaaay better

My Favourites:
LD, Ench, Tuskar, Kotl, Brood, Bloodstone,Sven, Leshrac, CLINKZ.

LD can finally use items on bear without buying energy/point booster or soulring. Ench and chen will be big this version. Bloodstone has an easier and more effective buildup. Sven support blink aghs with tiny in ya team OMFGWTF.
Also clinkz mostly gets diffu as 2-5th item to counter ghost. Now he can even take desolater to skyrocket his dps.

There is actually a clinkzplayer which skips on his orb and goes deso, now he goes both fosho

I dunno, I liked Halberd on ET vs these big rightclick melee carries ( Sven/Tiny/Void) so I guess it can be situational with the Aghas but it seems very powerful for the lategame if you can disarm 2 ppl fight is liek 90% won.

Also QOPs ulti range seems huge now (300->450)

why they did it with brood

The Sven Aghs seem to favor making him a support now, I don't really like that tbh, would've preferred a +MS/+AS boost instead, or a Warcry +MS% doubling.

@jäjä
Why would they buff brood, oh noes!

Anti-Mage base strength increased by 2.....thanks IceFrog.....big f***ing deal...

Holy shit I just reread the notes again
CHEN CAN USE Holy Persuasion on Antients :D this will be fun to see.

I LOVE NEW PL

If bloodseeker uses a max level Q and W, he now has a 600 aoe nuke which deals 334 pure damage in addition to the silence. That's some serious creep clearing potential right?

idk, love some changes, hate the others. In past 8 years many changes made me rage and many gave me joy, but bottom line is always unchanged - noobs will get skullfucked, pros will know the shit.

They should have just called this patch the "Aghanim's Upgrade" I 100% feel they have kind of gone and fucked up here and they have made more work for themselves then they know. Some of the shit they've added just leaves you sat there dumbfounded as to how they thought that was a clever idea.

Click on this text in the changelog: Vacuum cooldown rescaled from 28.0 seconds to 28 seconds :D
It vacuums

Once again Icefrog proved that he has no idea on how to balance a fucking game out.

@still time you need to get your head out of your ass, every single time I post you come in here and try and contradict without even reading the notes yourself. You claimed you can still insta lock heroes in AP which is blatantly NOT TRUE and the notes on blood:

"A hero affected by the Bloodrage buff who kills a unit will be healed for 25% of the dying unit's max HP, however heroes affected by Bloodrage when killed will heal 25% of their max health to their killer "

He can cast on a creep or himself but why the fuck would you cast it on ONE creep? You will get healed ONE time. If you cast on yourself you have 9-12 seconds to kill stuff and get healed but you take more dmg. It's a huge change but you're just a contrarian retard you can't understand that this is a nerf to blood as a mid. He no longer passively heals on every creep, if he wants more than one heal he casts on himself but takes more damage so it's kind of nullified. And his bloodrage dot was used to harass and the silence let him dive and kill heroes like OD, qop and storm mid.

And I am not bitching I do not care if blood is strong mid or not, I never play him, I am just pointing out my analysis of the changes and he will be stronger in lane with them with his new W ability.

It's not supposed to be completely balanced... And anyway, if there's something IMBA they can quickly nerf it down with a quick patch. Either way, you've been playing this game for years and it was always like this, so you must enjoy it more than you express. [Img]http://squirrelnet.org/forum/images/smilies/DansGame.png[/img]

I do like the change though, seems like a fun ganking meta and maybe some turtle as well with hero priority changing pretty drastically. The rune change is pretty good, you can now rely on filling up your bottle at rune spawn. The map changes seem interesting, you can now blink from Radiant side into Roshan pit so that's pretty cool but I don't know how all of them will affect gameplay. This is going to be interesting. :)

there's always going to be something that's imba, nothing is 100% balanced. having lots of imba heroes at least adds hero diversity.

Some one explain new PA blur to me. What's the difference between new and old? Thanks in advance.

Also, sounds like they are trying too make the game easier for support players.
>TP's cost less
>Wards give more bounty
>Rotating for runes always useful.

@ He can cast on a creep or himself but why the fuck would you cast it on ONE creep?

if you're jungling by casting it on 1 creep means that you only take 40% extra damage from 1 creep. casting it on yourself means that you take damage from all the creeps that you are fighting while still having the same damage increase, because you're only damaging 1 target due to not having aoe.

for laning, not really. barring some ridiculous situation where you have midas or dagon to insta kill a creep and putting bloodrage on yourself would mean the damage amp from a chasing enemy kills you whereas putting on the creep means you survive.

imo the change is fine. he does take extra damage but he also deals extra damage. so now to be good at bs mid you don't just go PMS + quelling blade. there's a bit more skill involved because now if you want to win the lane you'll have to harass the enemy down with attacks while you have bonus damage while still getting last hits on top of it.

with what i would consider a buff to thirst, now each extra attack you use to harass the enemy mid gives you an incremental advantage which helps win your lane, so there's reason to be efficient with each attack that you make. when the enemy mid has bottle, current bloodrage harass won't do shit because they'll never get below 50% since it's damage is crap in relation to it's mana cost.

although i think he's still playable mid. bottle is more legit because bloodrage alone may not be enough to keep him in lane and he has a better usage for mana, blood rite can be used to zone, wave clear or harass.

for anyone wondering, bloodrage increases all damage dealt, not just physical attacks. so put bloodrage on your allied luna and her eclipse will also do more damage for example.