I mean you are really stating the obvious. People pick shit that's viable. Or it's what they want to play. No one says what hero should be mid, common knowledge of the game dictates that understanding.
You play in herald bracket I assume. So people there can literally pick whatever the fuck they want and it's still viable. Why would a concept like mid heroes even exist amongst beginners?
You fucking douchebag
You're herald, like half the people there are people who bought 1 MMR accounts to grind for fun.
"You play in herald bracket I assume. So people there can literally pick whatever the fuck they want and it's still viable. Why would a concept like mid heroes even exist amongst beginners? "
Consider the following lineup:
Dazzle
KotL
Oracle
Witch Doctor
Crystal Maiden
Do you really think that lineup would, over time, achieve a 50 pct winrate in herald? Really? Because the direct implication of "positions don't matter in herald" is that the lineup I just gave *should* win 50 pct of the time. But it wouldn't. You know that. Everyone knows that.
You are just lying.
"grind for fun."
i'm quite sure this is the first time this phrasing has ever occurred in the English language
Your logic is flawed. How on earth can you expect any game, in whatever bracket, to have only 50% wr heroes picked as a manifestation of "correct" heroes to pick, according to your own definition?
Like Do you even logic bro.
Like what the fuck. Do you consider pick rates As well? (Not like it matters but just to carry on from your train of thought). And just saying, there's no data to say that lineup doesn't have 50% wr. You just have individual hero winrates. Retard fuck.
You need to forget about lineups and picks, herald is like the bottom 5%, you just need to learn a few heroes and grasp their fundamentals, and you could easily climb out of sub-1k. You're spamming Lich but lost with him 8 matches in a row with terrible kda each time. This has nothing to do with your picks or the enemy picks, it's because you max out sacrifice first almost every time and rush a euls after getting 15 minute tranquil boots.
And what the fuck does mentioning support heroes with over 50% wr have to do with the argument, that all heroes are viable in herald? WhAtever is strong in herald will show in the stats. Some supports are ridiculously strong. But that has nothing to do with positions in herald dota. Some carries are damn OP. Others really really suck. Like don't pick wisp in herald. But in general. Positions really do not matter. Is it that hard to understand ? 5 cArries win all the time in herald.
Dazzle
KotL
Oracle
Witch Doctor
Crystal Maiden
kotl offlane with dazzle,oracle mid,cm pos 1 and wd pos 5 would work
Picks don't matter at all in herald. You can kill the enemy cores solo as a support, with the exception of maybe Io.
"Your logic is flawed. How on earth can you expect any game, in whatever bracket, to have only 50% wr heroes picked as a manifestation of "correct" heroes to pick, according to your own definition?
Like Do you even logic bro. "
your use of the words "any game" indicates you do not understand basic statistics. at any rank, over time, any statistically viable lineup will *by definition* have a 50 pct winrate. that's just how statistics work. I don't even need to have ever played a game of dota to know that. it's just math.
again, *if* "picks don't matter in herald" then the lineup I gave would, BY DEFINITION, have a 50 pct winrate over a large enough sample size. of course no one, including you, actually believes "picks don't matter in herald".
again, you're a liar.
Except you're playing solo queue, you're not playing with the same 4 teammates, with the same 5 lineup every game where all 5 of you purposely pick the hardest supports in the game. Picks don't matter in herald because you can climb out of there with any hero if you're at least somewhat decent at them.
"Picks don't matter at all in herald. You can kill the enemy cores solo as a support, with the exception of maybe Io."
ok. you're telling me level 25 oracles have the same kill potential as a level 25 CK in herald bracket. really? no, you don't actually believe this. you're lying
"And just saying, there's no data to say that lineup doesn't have 50% wr. "
absolutely true. but not one person who plays dota believes that this hypothetical lineup would have a 50 pct winrate over a large sample size. not even you believe that. you are arguing in bad faith.
It's simple
Getting kills and dishing damage is fun. Destruction is fun. Being carry is fun.
So they pick mid heroes.
Haven't you seen enough of these carry wannabes to know already?
I am amazed you are playing support in that skill bracket.
I would rather play Ursa or MK with OOV, just walk into their lanes from behind and hit them to death.
"kotl offlane with dazzle,oracle mid,cm pos 1 and wd pos 5 would work"
ok, that might win some games. do you really think that lineup would achieve a 50 pct winrate in herald over a large sample size?
Dude ure herald with under 50% winrate some people there are mentally disabled or sth it's not that strange that people pick 4/5 cores, mids or supps
PREMISE: picks don't matter in herald
CONCLUSION: any randomly selected lineup would have a 50 percent winrate in herald over a large sample size
the conclusion directly and necessarily follows from the premise. if that premise is correct then the conclusion is correct
I meant a half-decent player can solo kill a herald enemy core as a support, I never said two retarded heralds with the same farm have an equal chance of beating each other if one of them was a hard carry and the other was a hard support.
Besides, Oracle has tons of burst damage and can easily solo some 500 MMR shitter if the Oracle was at least a semi-competent player. Get something like spirit vessel, dagon, and vessel, and free kill.
"I meant a half-decent player can solo kill a herald enemy core as a support,"
you do understand how elo works, right? elo is a predictive model based upon past game performance. over time people with similar elos perform similarly in a large enough sample of games. by "half decent" you mean a high skilled support can solo kill a low skilled carry. well, no ****. the thing is ranked mm is set up so that high skilled players aren't playing low skilled players.
when people say "half decent" or "semi competent" what they are referring to is someone who is, say, 3.5k mmr. well, a 3.5k mmr isn't going to be playing against a .5k mmr so the point is rather moot.
does dota2 attract people who are math illiterate? (yes, I know the actual term is "innumerate" but I don't expect anyone here to know that word)
"I meant a half-decent player can solo kill a herald enemy core as a support,"
also, you should be more precise about the statements you make if you don't want people taking liberty with them. now, the reason your statement wasn't more precise was that if you had made it precise the absurd implications would have been readily apparent. yes, clearly a semi competent support can solo kill an incompetent carry. however, ranked mm doesn't match semi competent players with incompetent player so the point is completely irrelevant
what you say is completely true. it's also completely irrelevant to anything that happens in any ranked dota game
"This has nothing to do with your picks or the enemy picks, it's because you max out sacrifice first almost every time and rush a euls after getting 15 minute tranquil boots."
I only do euls depending on the enemy cores. if i'm against fast or invis heroes then I do atos. as for maxing sac first that's what most of the guides recommend. i'm often in a lane with ranged carries so doing frost armor is rather pointless. and frost nova early works if you're trying to coordinate a gank with your other support and one of the cores (which doesn't happen sub 1k very often). as for 15 minute tranquils? that just means i'm not stealing my core's farm.
oh, yeah, I just looked up all the current guides and most 5k players are getting tranquils around the 11 to 12 minute mark, so i'm not sure what your point is. could/should I be getting tranquils faster than 15 minutes? sure, but then I probably wouldn't be in herald to begin with.
do you even have a point?
ok, fine. what do you recommend? one reason I go an early 4 points in sac is that people in my rank aren't very good at managing creeps. this means that I can sac more often and deny the enemy cores even more farm. this works especially well when i'm against a dual core lane and both enemy heroes need lots of farm. I would probably go with 3 points in sac against competently picked lanes
Or you could max out frost blast first and start killing enemy heroes alone because you're in herald and you can pretty much just go blast, chain frost, blast on the enemy and they'll be too stupid to get away from chain frost.
Grandpa Thad is quickly becomming the Meme of the Week, Highly intelligent and activeon the Forum, wants to discuss ideas and theorycraft.
Happens to be in the bottom 1% of the player base though :(
Grandpa Thad dont let these people stop your memes. But to answer your question. In the herald bracket you can literally pick any hero and do any build and probably win the game if you know what your doing.
IO can carry the fuck out of game. If you look at my account and my most recent Ember Spirit game you will see the other team had a carry IO that went Mid and probably performed the best in the game. This was a game with archons and ancients because My party friends are low. Every game is situational. I think you need to stop looking at DOTA so cut and dry and realize that it is the most complex, diverse, game in the world for a reason.
"Or you could max out frost blast first and start killing enemy heroes alone"
at what level am I supposed to be doing this? what role/lane am I playing? if I'm supporting properly I max my frost blast at level 7 when the enemy mid is probably around level 12. do you really think a level 7 lich is going to solo kill a level 12 shadow fiend just using frost blast? also, have you even played lich? chain frost isn't a reliable solo kill skill and frost blast has a cooldown that precludes a solo kill unless the enemy carry is already pretty low. further, half the time I go mid to gank I get yelled at by my own carry for leeching farm despite only being there for 15 seconds.
even further, the analysts, prominent youtubers, etc unanimously agree that early roaming was nerfed into the ground this patch. so apparently you know something all the serious analysts and commentators do not.
"they'll be too stupid to get away from chain frost."
you must have never even been in a game with lich. if i'm one v one then chain frost hits exactly once.
" You're spamming Lich but lost with him 8 matches in a row with terrible kda each time."
i'd say half those deaths have come in base under towers at the very end a game that was lost far far earlier. a few days ago we were against a six slotted spectre that was tanking our fountain and killing anyone who spawned in fountain immediately. a kda in that game isn't very relevant to actual gameplay.
one thing I've noticed that is odd is that when someone first picks a support in herald the rest of the team seems to feel free to pick whatever they want without regard to team comp.
Grandpa thad you are starting to lose me with your retard Noob logic. You are in Herald Bracket. Prominent youtubers and analysts are in Divine 5. That is literally the largest skill gap that you could create in a game.
You could take a pro guide. Do everything exactly opposite of what the guide says and win in herald.
You can solo lane lich in any lane in Herald and Should be able to out XP every hero in that game with your sacrifice.
Also have you ever heard of using Chain Frost by the creepwave so that it can hit the hero more than "exactly once" jesus man you try to sound all smart and educated but actually are a complete fucking noob at this game. Its not a good look
"Grandpa thad you are starting to lose me with your retard Noob logic. You are in Herald Bracket. Prominent youtubers and analysts are in Divine 5. That is literally the largest skill gap that you could create in a game. "
so what you are saying is that divine 5s are not able to do something that heralds regularly can nail? really? I mean if they are really that bad how the hell did they get to divine 5? or do I not understand the ranking system and herald is high skill and divine 5 is low skill. what you obviously mean is that a high skill player can make a bunch of different things work against low skill players. true, but high skill players aren't in games with low skill players so the entire point is irrelevant.
"Also have you ever heard of using Chain Frost by the creepwave so that it can hit the hero more than "exactly once"
of course. the problem is that this has the effect of stealing an entire wave of farm from my mid carry. and there's absolutely no guarantee that the frost bolt will go to the hero as opposed to a creep.
you have clearly never played in a game with lich. chain frost is mainly for two things:
a) team fights after an iniator like axe has already gone in
b) quckly clearly creep waves to push after winning a large team fight and there is no threat from enemy heroes.
chain frost is generally not a reliable and efficient method of solo ganking. does it sometimes work? sure. is it efficient and reliable? no.
"you try to sound all smart and educated but actually are a complete fucking noob at this game. Its not a good look"
this is empty and meaningless. if what you were saying is true then you would be able to demonstrate it by providing a logic and evidence based counter argument. that you don't indicates you are just lying.
if you think "trying to sound smart and educated" is a bad look it has nothing on outright lying
"you try to sound all smart"
why is it dota attracts such envious people? serious question. of all human emotions envy is by far the ugliest
I agree with NA+C1
For once
Just shut the fuck up and stop whining
No one gives a fucking shit
You are the only constant, stop complaining that ur team is retarded because ur fucking herald, meaning ur team will always be retarded and so are you
Tl;Dr
S T O P
This may be a super meta jacked troll tho so be careful
He sounds like a clone of hanyolo with the divine = herald talk so I think that jacked slipped up there
No Thad. I have been playing Dota since Warcraft 3 for the last 15 years. I know how fucking Chain Frost works. You clearly dont. If your teamate is complaining that your Ult killed his wave after a successful gank then your teamate is a fucking retard.
You clearly missed my point because you are too busy stubbornly arguing random points that are irrelevant to the conversation. I am saying that a Divine 5 game is literally like playing an entirely different game. The playstyle. Timings. Rotations. Hero Pool. Game Knowledge. Hero Comps. Are all going to be extremely different. What is working in Divine 5 isnt even happening at your bracket. Which is back to my point that you can literally do whatever the fuck you want in your bracket and Win. because there is no meta, no set thing to do. no gaurenteed way to win.
Everyone runs around with their heads cut off looking for farm and kills with no real coordination or understanding of the task at hand.
If you actually want advice on how to win in this bracket its simple. Pick a hero that can be self sufficient and push. You dont need anyone to win the game but yourself. Examples of this would be Natures Prophet. Visage. Clinkz. Lycan. ETC. You can win the game by going 0-0-0 and killing the enemy base. This is a concept that is lost on your bracket. Everyone thinks if they are 6 slotted and have 50 kills then they can for sure carry and win. But the Broodmother player that literally never showed on the map that went 0-0-0 and killed all 6 racks will end up having the last laugh.
"stop complaining"
asking a question is not complaining. you are lying when you use the word "complaining".
why is it so many people on this forum are such inveterate liars?
of course. the problem is that this has the effect of stealing an entire wave of farm from my mid carry. and there's absolutely no guarantee that the frost bolt will go to the hero as opposed to a creep.you have clearly never played in a game with lich. chain frost is mainly for two things:
a) team fights after an iniator like axe has already gone in
b) quckly clearly creep waves to push after winning a large team fight and there is no threat from enemy heroes.chain frost is generally not a reliable and efficient method of solo ganking. does it sometimes work? sure. is it efficient and reliable? no.
you must have never even been in a game with lich. if i'm one v one then chain frost hits exactly once.
At what level am I supposed to be doing this? what role/lane am I playing? if I'm supporting properly I max my frost blast at level 7 when the enemy mid is probably around level 12. do you really think a level 7 lich is going to solo kill a level 12 shadow fiend just using frost blast? also, have you even played lich? chain frost isn't a reliable solo kill skill and frost blast has a cooldown that precludes a solo kill unless the enemy carry is already pretty low
Please tell me how to properly play Lich again. I'm just a noob, thank you for teaching me that supports are not allowed to do any damage, get kills, or rotate. I'll try sitting on my ass in lane doing nothing the whole game next match.
"You clearly missed my point because you are too busy stubbornly arguing random points that are irrelevant to the conversation."
you are bad at arguing a position and staying on topic. obviously being good at dota and being a clear and concise thinker are not correlated. Nothing you say in your comment is wrong. it's just completely unrelated to anything I've said.
try to stay on topic. look, if you have nothing relevant to add to a topic then you have no business commenting on that topic
"you can literally do whatever the fuck you want in your bracket and Win."
no you can't. not even you believe this. stop lying
"Please tell me how to properly play Lich again. I'm just a noob, thank you for teaching me that supports are not allowed to do any damage, get kills, or rotate. I'll try sitting on my ass in lane doing nothing the whole game next match."
nothing you say in this comment has anything to do with what is being discussed. why is it so hard for people to stay on topic. look, if you have nothing relevant to add then don't comment.
Thad I truly do beleive this. Here is an example of Carry IO. https://www.dotabuff.com/matches/3857583042
Im done replying to you because you try to sound like a fucking Scholar but are literally just spewing garbage out of your mouth. it is clear that your rank reflects your skill level and processing power. Clearly the idea of getting out of Herald is weighing heavily on you.
I hope that one day you can make it out of ELO hell
Potato,
can you give me an example of a game where you solo kill a mid core when you are level 7
Моля, впишете се, за да публикувате коментар.
I just played against a team that picked 4 heroes whose best lanes, statistically, are all mid lane. I see this quite consistently. and I pretty much see the side that does that lose every single game. why do people do this (and don't tell me it's cuz they are "stupid").
i'm genuinely curious about the mentality of someone who thinks "hey, we've got 3 mid heroes, let's pick a 4th". It makes games pretty boring. also, I see it happening so often i'm sure readers of this forum do it. My question is why would you do that?