Well i have a complaint.
After following these threads and deciding on not commenting i’ve been triggered by your endless spamming of “ “ to quote. Just fucking write
that *something* works doesn't mean that "anything can* work. those are two completely different things. if you say "anything works" then you are simply lying. you don't even believe what you are saying
can you give me an example of a game where you solo kill a mid core when you are level 7
Why is it so hard to believe you can get kills as Lich? Fine, here's something from my last match, Storm was about 70% health when I approached him, I frost blasted him, then chased him when I saw he was low on mana. I knew the enemy creep wave was about to approach based on the position of our own creeps, so I threw a chain frost at him before I could see the enemy creeps, but knew they would arrive in time for the chain bounce. With a bit of luck, it managed to bounce off Storm twice and he ran out of mana so I could finish him off with 2 right clicks when he was slowed from chain frost.
Wow Potato Marshall. Respect on finding that situation and explaining how it happened. I dont think Grandpa Thad will learn anything from this but its hilarious to me that you were able to walk him through this and screenshot it.
I can really play Ursa with OOV+Wind Lace and walk into someone for a kill in Herald no Kappa
That's how easy Herald is
You should try it out OP, try it until you know the trick behind it ROFL
You just need to circle around the lane and go from behind
Then the rest is orb walking
Oh shit did I just give the trick away?
btw, for those of you who look at position 5s in herald and chortle about kda. what happens is that in losing games cores will focus on the enemy supports in order to get a better kda, despite losing. for example, I was playing AA on a team that was winning in a stomp, game was already over. the enemy had a spirit breaker and (I think) a PA who kept focusing on me and getting kills. I finished something like 2 and 15 because the sb/pa combo spent the last 15 minutes of the game doing nothing but hunting me for kills. those kills were completely irrelevant to the outcome but they kept doing it.
in low skill you have cores ignoring enemy cores to go after supports late game simply to pad their stats.
Now that I have confirmed you are a sociopath i can rest easy
How do you equate "Anything Can Work" to "This will result in a 50% winrate"
The lineup you said, can work, in the right situation. Its not impossible to win with it. Its not impossible to lose with it. Like what are you looking for man hahahaha
"Why is it so hard to believe you can get kills as Lich? "
how is a position5 at level 9 when a position2 is at level 10? do you have a link to the game? I don't doubt this *can* happen. I've done it several times myself but that has nothing to do with this topic. is solo ganking from position 5 at level 7 onto a position 2 a generally reliable.
i'm curious as to how you managed to get a position5 almost as leveled as a position2 at that point in the game. why do I ask? because I've watched a few dozen demos ( during laning phase) and when the position5 hits level 7 the position2 is usually around level 11 (even 12). yes, I can see a level 9 lich solo killing a level 10 mid core. I find it tough to believe a level 7 position 5 can reliably solo gank a position 2 who is level 11 or 12.
given the context of my question and the specific levels I already mentioned I would have thought you would give me an example of a level 7 lich solo killing a level 11 or 12 shadow fiend
How do you equate "Anything Can Work" to "This will result in a 50% winrate"
because the latter is the plural of the former.
PREMISE: anything can work
CONCLUSION: anything is equally as good as anything else
obviously what you really mean is that in very specific niche situations, IO mid for example, anything *can* work. that does not mean that specific *anything* is a reliable way to get things done.
the problem is people in this thread are claiming picks don't matter at all and that any pick is as good as any other for any situation in herald. if your position is that anything *can* work in some specific niche situation then that contradicts the claim that picks don't matter at all
here's an idea: first pick IO and go mid for 50 games in a row. tell me how that works out for ya
Enjoy turning everything into an argument and skewing people statements to support your idiotic mentality. You will never make it out of Herald. Thanks for playing
I just played against a team that picked 4 heroes whose best lanes, statistically, are all mid lane. I see this quite consistently. and I pretty much see the side that does that lose every single game. why do people do this (and don't tell me it's cuz they are "stupid").
i'm genuinely curious about the mentality of someone who thinks "hey, we've got 3 mid heroes, let's pick a 4th". It makes games pretty boring. also, I see it happening so often i'm sure readers of this forum do it. My question is why would you do that?
This was your original question right? From what you've said in this thread about how people keep pointlessly saying that "competent players can beat incompetent players" because that doesn't happen in matchmaking (although it does to an extent at every level because MMR is not a perfect measure of ones skill) then you've already nailed the answer to your own question.
Herald players are stupid. They're all stupid and bad players otherwise they wouldn't be in herald. The large scale statistics and guides that you're relying on don't apply to herald because it's a tiny percentage of the playerbase where stupid people live. The bar for skill is so low that even a small bit of skill will outweigh any hero/meta advantage.
Now I don't expect you to understand this because as I said and you alluded to, you're a stupid herald player hence why you refuse to accept the answer everyone is giving you because then you would accept that you, unfortunately, are stupid.
You don’t need skills to win in herald. Just don’t go full retard and you can win most of your game. Anyone who is slightly decent would easily have over 50% wr in herald. Stop playing and creating thread on db.
No 44 year old man can be this stupid. Honestly, I think this guy is just a troll. And one with loads of free time. Definitely some mental issues, I hope you get better some day, whoever you are
In herald bracket you obviously need to improve your own skill and carry the shit out of it.Go pick high burst hero like willow or maybe an offlaner that can transition nicely into late game.Supporting a herald is basically useless if they doesn't even know how to benefit from it.
I'll add something people may not make explicit
Anything works in herald when the players are better than herald
If u took crusaders and gave them an all support lineup against heralds they would win
You are trying to apply logic to a situation that is largely emotional. These people are picking heroes that they want to play because it's their favorite hero thematically or because they enjoy the kit. It doesn't have anything to do with winning the game.
Consider for a moment the possibility that having fun and losing are not mutually exclusive.
You can't win in herald games as a hard support, you're being sacrificial for people who don't even understand basic concepts of the game. Supports aren't even mandatory below 2k, it's more efficient to buy wards as an extra core and place them between farm spots.
If you *really* don't want to play anything else, unranked may be better, since three digit MMR is a smurf hellhole. The ranked season is due to end anyway, so you can recalibrate after practicing other roles.
"Herald players are stupid. They're all stupid and bad players otherwise they wouldn't be in herald."
absolutely incorrect. I would say that 30 pct of herald's have griefing/throwing as their main objective in playing the game. the human species produces a vast array of personalities and motivations vary wildly according to personality.
"you refuse to accept the answer everyone is giving you"
not everyone. a few people. and they are not just wrong, but they are simply lying. they don't even believe what they are saying, doesn't even pass the laugh test.
" Solo laning Lich can easily kill enemy core at 6. "
agreed. I've played solo lich offlane exactly once. in fact, it was this morning, although I almost always play him as safelane support. I was laning against morphling/sniper. Not only did I get 2 solo kills but both were double solo kills. I went 9/6/22 having never played lich as a core. and we lost. we had a spirit breaker 1v1 mid vs shadow fiend, an omniknight/doom/axe in safe lane. we finished with around 5 more kills than the enemy; we also managed to get exactly zero towers of theirs. omniknight went 12/6/15 and got reported by axe and doom for feeding because he got caught once alone in lane.
"its very easy to stomp as io mid lol, wrong hero to argue about"
who is arguing? io is played 17 pct of the time in mid and wins 44 pct of the time in that lane. of the 20 featured guides on dotabuff right now not one of them has IO playing mid. here's some math (in case you haven't noticed i'm good at math):
if regularly playing io mid were normally distributed across all levels the chances of at least 1 IO in mid would be p = 1 - .83^20. which is .024. that means if very high skill players were playing IO mid at similar rates to lower brackets then the odds that not one of the 20 guides would have an IO mid is 2.4 percent. is it possible that we just happen to have that result? sure. let's say you periodically check IO guides to see if you can find one playing IO mid. in 40 samples you would have 1 with no IO at mid. the other 39 samples would have *at least* one IO playing mid and the average would have 3 to 4 (3.4 to be exact) IO playing mid. in that same random sample you would also see around 6 Io playing mid once every 40 samples.
given those numbers it is unlikely that IO mid is a reliable easy stomp. are there games where IO mid is an easy stomp? sure. but the statistics pretty clearly demonstrate that is not reliable.
you are simply lying. you are a liar. no reasonable person could look at the comment above you and conclude the person making that comment was "stupid". you are a fundamentally dishonest person.
A troll is someone who doesn't even believe the things they are saying - basically trolling is arguing in bad faith. Which is, coincidentally what *you* are doing. Yes, there is in fact a troll here, and that troll is you.
Spotting trolls is easy. You ask them about the position(s) they are taking. Trolls can't answer questions about their positions because they don't really believe what they are saying, in the first place. This method of spotting trolls is over 2500 years old and is colloquially known as The Socratic Method - the technical term is The Dialectic.
for those of you who say that divine5 is a *completely* different game from herald1. the correlation of winrates by hero in sub 2k and 5k+ is .56. this means that 56 percent of the winrate variation, by hero, in sub 2k predicts the winrate variation, by hero, in 5k+
"@op give me your acc and i will boost you to 4k in a month"
I have no interest in ranking up. I just want 10 friendly people on both teams who work together and are respectful and fun. I would rather lose a close, hard fought match than win a stomp. When I see 5 supports on the enemy team I am just as disappointed as when I see 5 supports on my team.
See, everyone who has responded to me has simply assumed that I am upset over losing. i'm not. I could be herald 1 for the rest of the time I spend playhing dota as long as I am in a server with people who take other people seriously.
gramps,can you deny most of your opponents creep and taking all the lasthits already? and do you know how to farm really fast?
also,do you know stat efficient items for laning phase?
just work on at that and try to notice "free kills" on whatever stages of the game,there should be many of that
try to work on at denying,since most people doesn't know how to creep aggro
edit: yeah,you want a friendly 10 people but probably you'll have lesser chance getting that on that bracket where everyone mostly don't know how to play
if you want something,just strife for it
rank up,getting better on the game is not that bad
"Spotting trolls is easy. You ask them about the position(s) they are taking. Trolls can't answer questions about their positions because they don't really believe what they are saying, in the first place. This method of spotting trolls is over 2500 years old and is colloquially known as The Socratic Method - the technical term is The Dialectic."
"Thad I truly do beleive this. Here is an example of Carry IO"
great. good work. it's completely irrelevant to anything I've said but I will have to check that game out when I have a chance.
Well i have a complaint.
to quote peopleAfter following these threads and deciding on not commenting i’ve been triggered by your endless spamming of “ “ to quote. Just fucking write
Thanks
"Thad I truly do beleive this. "
that *something* works doesn't mean that "anything can* work. those are two completely different things. if you say "anything works" then you are simply lying. you don't even believe what you are saying
Pick Lion, Gank Mid, Stun Mid, Press R = Solo Kill, holy shit man do you just not understand anything?
No you dumb fuck anything does work in your bracket. ANYTHING
Why is it so hard to believe you can get kills as Lich? Fine, here's something from my last match, Storm was about 70% health when I approached him, I frost blasted him, then chased him when I saw he was low on mana. I knew the enemy creep wave was about to approach based on the position of our own creeps, so I threw a chain frost at him before I could see the enemy creeps, but knew they would arrive in time for the chain bounce. With a bit of luck, it managed to bounce off Storm twice and he ran out of mana so I could finish him off with 2 right clicks when he was slowed from chain frost.
Wow Potato Marshall. Respect on finding that situation and explaining how it happened. I dont think Grandpa Thad will learn anything from this but its hilarious to me that you were able to walk him through this and screenshot it.
I cant wait to see Thads response to this.
I can really play Ursa with OOV+Wind Lace and walk into someone for a kill in Herald no Kappa
That's how easy Herald is
You should try it out OP, try it until you know the trick behind it ROFL
You just need to circle around the lane and go from behind
Then the rest is orb walking
Oh shit did I just give the trick away?
@OP u shud staph playing lich
Play something a lil bit harder like venge
Gamora died though
"bulldog does it on offlane lich"
offlane core or support? I have only played lich offlane core once.
"No you dumb fuck anything does work in your bracket. ANYTHING "
then the lineup I gave above would have a 50 pct winrate over a large sample size. but it wouldn't. so you're simply wrong
btw, for those of you who look at position 5s in herald and chortle about kda. what happens is that in losing games cores will focus on the enemy supports in order to get a better kda, despite losing. for example, I was playing AA on a team that was winning in a stomp, game was already over. the enemy had a spirit breaker and (I think) a PA who kept focusing on me and getting kills. I finished something like 2 and 15 because the sb/pa combo spent the last 15 minutes of the game doing nothing but hunting me for kills. those kills were completely irrelevant to the outcome but they kept doing it.
in low skill you have cores ignoring enemy cores to go after supports late game simply to pad their stats.
Now that I have confirmed you are a sociopath i can rest easy
How do you equate "Anything Can Work" to "This will result in a 50% winrate"
The lineup you said, can work, in the right situation. Its not impossible to win with it. Its not impossible to lose with it. Like what are you looking for man hahahaha
"Why is it so hard to believe you can get kills as Lich? "
how is a position5 at level 9 when a position2 is at level 10? do you have a link to the game? I don't doubt this *can* happen. I've done it several times myself but that has nothing to do with this topic. is solo ganking from position 5 at level 7 onto a position 2 a generally reliable.
i'm curious as to how you managed to get a position5 almost as leveled as a position2 at that point in the game. why do I ask? because I've watched a few dozen demos ( during laning phase) and when the position5 hits level 7 the position2 is usually around level 11 (even 12). yes, I can see a level 9 lich solo killing a level 10 mid core. I find it tough to believe a level 7 position 5 can reliably solo gank a position 2 who is level 11 or 12.
given the context of my question and the specific levels I already mentioned I would have thought you would give me an example of a level 7 lich solo killing a level 11 or 12 shadow fiend
How do you equate "Anything Can Work" to "This will result in a 50% winrate"
because the latter is the plural of the former.
PREMISE: anything can work
CONCLUSION: anything is equally as good as anything else
obviously what you really mean is that in very specific niche situations, IO mid for example, anything *can* work. that does not mean that specific *anything* is a reliable way to get things done.
the problem is people in this thread are claiming picks don't matter at all and that any pick is as good as any other for any situation in herald. if your position is that anything *can* work in some specific niche situation then that contradicts the claim that picks don't matter at all
here's an idea: first pick IO and go mid for 50 games in a row. tell me how that works out for ya
Damn man i never thought i could be triggered by someone while not even playing the game yet here you are.
Thank god Im actually good at this game and dont ever have to play with players like you
Enjoy turning everything into an argument and skewing people statements to support your idiotic mentality. You will never make it out of Herald. Thanks for playing
"Thank god Im actually good at this game and dont ever have to play with players like you"
you have zero business commenting on this thread because you have nothing useful or informative to add. you cant even grasp the topic of this thread
go away. your input isn't useful or relevant
This was your original question right? From what you've said in this thread about how people keep pointlessly saying that "competent players can beat incompetent players" because that doesn't happen in matchmaking (although it does to an extent at every level because MMR is not a perfect measure of ones skill) then you've already nailed the answer to your own question.
Herald players are stupid. They're all stupid and bad players otherwise they wouldn't be in herald. The large scale statistics and guides that you're relying on don't apply to herald because it's a tiny percentage of the playerbase where stupid people live. The bar for skill is so low that even a small bit of skill will outweigh any hero/meta advantage.
Now I don't expect you to understand this because as I said and you alluded to, you're a stupid herald player hence why you refuse to accept the answer everyone is giving you because then you would accept that you, unfortunately, are stupid.
Gramps back at it again I see HAHAH
You don’t need skills to win in herald. Just don’t go full retard and you can win most of your game. Anyone who is slightly decent would easily have over 50% wr in herald. Stop playing and creating thread on db.
No 44 year old man can be this stupid. Honestly, I think this guy is just a troll. And one with loads of free time. Definitely some mental issues, I hope you get better some day, whoever you are
is this thread worth the read
What are u arguing about, Grandpa? Solo laning Lich can easily kill enemy core at 6. Just because that core would be level 3-5 depending on the lane.
In herald bracket you obviously need to improve your own skill and carry the shit out of it.Go pick high burst hero like willow or maybe an offlaner that can transition nicely into late game.Supporting a herald is basically useless if they doesn't even know how to benefit from it.
I'll add something people may not make explicit
Anything works in herald when the players are better than herald
If u took crusaders and gave them an all support lineup against heralds they would win
The reality of herald is that nothing works xd
You are trying to apply logic to a situation that is largely emotional. These people are picking heroes that they want to play because it's their favorite hero thematically or because they enjoy the kit. It doesn't have anything to do with winning the game.
Consider for a moment the possibility that having fun and losing are not mutually exclusive.
You can't win in herald games as a hard support, you're being sacrificial for people who don't even understand basic concepts of the game. Supports aren't even mandatory below 2k, it's more efficient to buy wards as an extra core and place them between farm spots.
If you *really* don't want to play anything else, unranked may be better, since three digit MMR is a smurf hellhole. The ranked season is due to end anyway, so you can recalibrate after practicing other roles.
44 years old xD, i doubt that a middle aged man have the time to play a game like this
"Herald players are stupid. They're all stupid and bad players otherwise they wouldn't be in herald."
absolutely incorrect. I would say that 30 pct of herald's have griefing/throwing as their main objective in playing the game. the human species produces a vast array of personalities and motivations vary wildly according to personality.
"you refuse to accept the answer everyone is giving you"
not everyone. a few people. and they are not just wrong, but they are simply lying. they don't even believe what they are saying, doesn't even pass the laugh test.
" Solo laning Lich can easily kill enemy core at 6. "
agreed. I've played solo lich offlane exactly once. in fact, it was this morning, although I almost always play him as safelane support. I was laning against morphling/sniper. Not only did I get 2 solo kills but both were double solo kills. I went 9/6/22 having never played lich as a core. and we lost. we had a spirit breaker 1v1 mid vs shadow fiend, an omniknight/doom/axe in safe lane. we finished with around 5 more kills than the enemy; we also managed to get exactly zero towers of theirs. omniknight went 12/6/15 and got reported by axe and doom for feeding because he got caught once alone in lane.
its very easy to stomp as io mid lol, wrong hero to argue about
Cool and Good
Spam Axe/BB/Tusk/offlane Brew on low bracket like yours, OP, easiest to climb
"its very easy to stomp as io mid lol, wrong hero to argue about"
who is arguing? io is played 17 pct of the time in mid and wins 44 pct of the time in that lane. of the 20 featured guides on dotabuff right now not one of them has IO playing mid. here's some math (in case you haven't noticed i'm good at math):
if regularly playing io mid were normally distributed across all levels the chances of at least 1 IO in mid would be p = 1 - .83^20. which is .024. that means if very high skill players were playing IO mid at similar rates to lower brackets then the odds that not one of the 20 guides would have an IO mid is 2.4 percent. is it possible that we just happen to have that result? sure. let's say you periodically check IO guides to see if you can find one playing IO mid. in 40 samples you would have 1 with no IO at mid. the other 39 samples would have *at least* one IO playing mid and the average would have 3 to 4 (3.4 to be exact) IO playing mid. in that same random sample you would also see around 6 Io playing mid once every 40 samples.
given those numbers it is unlikely that IO mid is a reliable easy stomp. are there games where IO mid is an easy stomp? sure. but the statistics pretty clearly demonstrate that is not reliable.
they are stupid, and so are you
"they are stupid, and so are you"
you are simply lying. you are a liar. no reasonable person could look at the comment above you and conclude the person making that comment was "stupid". you are a fundamentally dishonest person.
Salt salt salt
I mean asshole is one thing but calling someone a liar is just strange
What does that even mean
Definite troll, but a good attempt jacked
"I mean asshole is one thing but calling someone a liar is just strange "
Truth: the best explanation for something being discussed
Lie: offering an explanation when an obviously better explanation is available
At some point, babbling is indistinguishable from lying because it can only be talking in bad faith (aka intellectual dishonesty)
It's only strange because you don't understand. No, you're not an asshole. You're a liar. Which is far, far worse than merely being an asshole.
"Definite troll, but a good attempt jacked"
A troll is someone who doesn't even believe the things they are saying - basically trolling is arguing in bad faith. Which is, coincidentally what *you* are doing. Yes, there is in fact a troll here, and that troll is you.
Spotting trolls is easy. You ask them about the position(s) they are taking. Trolls can't answer questions about their positions because they don't really believe what they are saying, in the first place. This method of spotting trolls is over 2500 years old and is colloquially known as The Socratic Method - the technical term is The Dialectic.
@op give me your acc and i will boost you to 4k in a month
for those of you who say that divine5 is a *completely* different game from herald1. the correlation of winrates by hero in sub 2k and 5k+ is .56. this means that 56 percent of the winrate variation, by hero, in sub 2k predicts the winrate variation, by hero, in 5k+
"@op give me your acc and i will boost you to 4k in a month"
I have no interest in ranking up. I just want 10 friendly people on both teams who work together and are respectful and fun. I would rather lose a close, hard fought match than win a stomp. When I see 5 supports on the enemy team I am just as disappointed as when I see 5 supports on my team.
See, everyone who has responded to me has simply assumed that I am upset over losing. i'm not. I could be herald 1 for the rest of the time I spend playhing dota as long as I am in a server with people who take other people seriously.
Too much salt here. Imma go find another forum
wat the heck did i just read
gramps,can you deny most of your opponents creep and taking all the lasthits already? and do you know how to farm really fast?
also,do you know stat efficient items for laning phase?
just work on at that and try to notice "free kills" on whatever stages of the game,there should be many of that
try to work on at denying,since most people doesn't know how to creep aggro
edit: yeah,you want a friendly 10 people but probably you'll have lesser chance getting that on that bracket where everyone mostly don't know how to play
if you want something,just strife for it
rank up,getting better on the game is not that bad
@op give me your acc and i will boost you to 5k in a month
"Spotting trolls is easy. You ask them about the position(s) they are taking. Trolls can't answer questions about their positions because they don't really believe what they are saying, in the first place. This method of spotting trolls is over 2500 years old and is colloquially known as The Socratic Method - the technical term is The Dialectic."
10/10